Shouldering a "pistol"

[BGREID]

Again, way too much analysis and over-thinking here...
Of course you aren't subject to using a receiver under NFA restrictions when it's not in an NFA configuration, such as a pistol or standard rifle, even if that receiver is a Form4 factory SBR or Form1 manufactured SBR. The question is why would you do such a thing...because you're in a different state? Or because you are using a pistol configuration in a vehicle, etc? The fact remains that there is still a tax stamp and associated federal registry and paperwork tied directly to that serial # receiver. Only way to reverse that is to go through a deliberate process and have its SBR status removed. I have absolutely zero knowledge/experience on how to do this...never have and never will.
So why not just have a dedicated pistol lower to eliminate the potential issues? Plus, I'm pretty sure anyone who goes through the process of obtaining an AR-type SBR also has at least 1 standard AR-type rifle receiver. So just use that and safeguard your dedicated registered SBR receivers for lawful use in a secure environment where there isn't any ambiguity. The only thing certain and consistent in the world of agency regulations and restrictions is that there is nothing certain nor consistent about them.

I concur and with the price of a complete lower being less than a tax stamp why not have a dedicated pistol lower. I am thinking about a pistol lower so that I can test uppers before I do a SBR.

[GJM]

So unlike a SBR or SBS, which can be converted either temporarily (or permanently with notification and paperwork) back to a "regular" rifle or shotgun by removing the short barrel, once the AR pistol becomes a SBR, there is no converting it back to a pistol again, either temporarily or permanently.

[BlackWatch16]

So unlike a SBR or SBS, which can be converted either temporarily (or permanently with notification and paperwork) back to a "regular" rifle or shotgun by removing the short barrel, once the AR pistol becomes a SBR, there is no converting it back to a pistol again, either temporarily or permanently.

Legally, that is correct. An AR pistol receiver is defined as a virgin lower born as a pistol (by either purchasing a factory pistol or assembling from a new stripped lower) and must stay that way throughout its life by only having an approved pistol buffer/brace configuration. Installing a standard rifle or carbine buffer/stock legally transforms it into a rifle. A form1 legally transforms it into an SBR. In either case, it can never be a pistol again regardless if you put a pistol buffer back on. It's basically had a legal sex change.
As always, there are many factors at play in the written vs enforced law. I will never be one to experiment. Every man makes his own decisions though.

[Gunfixr]

With an sbr, if the short barrel is removed, and a longer, non-nfa barrel is installed, it is not treated as an sbr. However, it was a rifle before, and still is. The only thing that changed was it's qualification as an nfa weapon.

By registering a pistol lower as an sbr, you have now permanently changed it into a rifle. You can do as above. However, removing the stock and changing to a pistol buffer tube does not make it a pistol, it remains an sbr.

There is a way to make it back into a pistol, but an 07 FFL is needed.

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[MistWolf]

An AR pistol receiver is defined as a virgin lower born as a pistol (by either purchasing a factory pistol or assembling from a new stripped lower) and must stay that way throughout its life by only having an approved pistol buffer/brace configuration. Installing a standard rifle or carbine buffer/stock legally transforms it into a rifle...

A rifle or carbine RE can be used on an AR pistol as long as a rifle stock isn't used. A lower isn't a rifle until it's configured as one, that is, it has a barreled upper installed while the lower is fitted with a rifle stock. If the RE type made a difference, a lower sold with a rifle or carbine RE and a stock would have to be listed on the Form 4473 as a "RIFLE", not "OTHER" and an 18 year old could purchase one legally.


However, it must be listed as "OTHER" because it can be legally configured as a pistol (of course the rifle stock must be removed first) and the purchaser must be at least 21.

Remember, these laws cover more than just ARs. It covers ALL firearms. Saying the RE type matters (which the BATF has not) is the same as saying the stock screw block on a 10/22 barrel must be different between a rifle and a pistol configuration so that the pistol screw block won't accept a rifle stock, or that the empty space of the Glock grip must be filled so that it cannot accept a buttstock unless the pistol is registered an SBR

[Gunfixr]

A rifle or carbine RE can be used on an AR pistol as long as a rifle stock isn't used.

Uhhh, no.
An ar pistol with a rifle re, carbine or full length, is an sbr, because it will readily accept a stock. A pistol re will not readily accept a stock.
The one exception is a carbine re with the Thordsen cheekpiece attached to it.

Yes, an AR lower with a stock on it, that left the factory that way, is still a "receiver" by definition. But, to make a pistol, the re must be swapped out to avoid it being an sbr.
They did not have to say that the re type matters, because it was already covered by "will readily accept a stock". If the re is modified so that it will no longer readily accept a stock, then it would be OK.

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[Koshinn]

Uhhh, no.
An ar pistol with a rifle re, carbine or full length, is an sbr

Citation/source?

[tb-av]

Yeah, I've never heard that one before... this old letter uses the term 'could'.. but never says you can;'t use one.

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2013/11...isconceptions/

"The one exception is a carbine re with the Thordsen cheekpiece attached to it."

So ATF gave one company a pass and no others? I don't think so.

This is pretty clean view on the matter.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...braces-intent/

[Gunfixr]

Citation/source?

A pistol cannot readily accept a stock.
Readily is determined by ease of assembly. Just sliding the stock on and it locking on place, in a few seconds, with no tools or mods, qualifies.

For instance, the Thompson carbine, some models, the stock is removable. On the pistol version, the stock cannot be attached, for the same reason.

Thordsen has a letter, iirc, and it takes tools to install or remove, and a stock won't go on the tube with it installed.

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[fledge]

Pertinent paragraph from Thorsden letter:

"The receiver extension/buffer tube on an AR-type pistol serves a legitimate, vital function in the operation of the weapon system; and if utilized as originally designed is not considered to be a shoulder stock. Further, a pistol that has an AR-t1pe buffer tube or similar component assembled to it, which consequently allows for the installation of a saddle/cheek enhancement accessory, is not classified as a SBR; nor unlawful to possess."

Source: http://www.thordsencustoms.com/media...istol_pack.PDF


No reference to receiver needing to be anything other than "AR-type" and "original design" which is not a pistol buffer. The emphasis is on the use rather than ability to add a stock.

At least that's how it reads to me.