Loaded for Bear - Is 10mm Sufficient?

[sinister]

I've looked at the Glock 10mm and have been intrigued by the possibility of using one when I fish and play in bear country. The minor equivalent of a 41 Magnum (though I believe the heaviest bullets available are around 220 grains at 950 joules energy) the Glock 20 is issued to Danish Rangers who patrol Greenland (for polar bear defense). Then again, they're also issued rifles.

A .44 Magnum is really around .43", so frontal area isn't much difference. 1400 joules energy.

A 300-grain Buffalo Bore 45 Colt going 1300 fps (in a solid Ruger frame) gives around 1100 joules.

Whatever one carries you've got to practice and be ready and willing. People and bears have transited the same living space for eons.

You can't just hit a bear and call it good. They are massive, and their slow heart rates mean they can still kill you even with a completely shredded heart.

[Gunnar da Wolf]

El Cid,

If you don't mind me asking, what is that attached to the back strap of your pistol?

[El Cid]

El Cid,

If you don't mind me asking, what is that attached to the back strap of your pistol?

It's a Grip Force Adapter. Have them on almost all my Glocks. No slide bite and helps fill in the recurve of the back of the Glock.

http://www.gripforceproducts.com/#2864

[titsonritz]

It's a Grip Force Adapeter. Have them on almost all my Glocks. No slide bite and helps fill in the recurve of the back of the Glock.

http://www.gripforceproducts.com/#2864

Damnit, I just placed an order at Brownells yesterday and forgot to get another one.

[El Cid]

Damnit, I just placed an order at Brownells yesterday and forgot to get another one.

Yea, I love them. Before Gen 4's with beaver tails it was the only way for me to shoot a Glock and not draw blood. The grip angle adjustment and feel was a bonus. I can tolerate the OEM beaver tail but still prefer the GFA. And for my Gen 3 guns the GFA is the only option short of having the frame radically altered.

[El Cid]

I've seen a couple mentions here of bear attack simulators. How easy is it to find in other areas of the country? Is it a laser shot type of deal or a video you can use live ammo to shoot?

Everything I've found online is for bear spray.

[El Cid]

Step up to something with some real power. Handgun hunters that hunt dangerous game probably know a lot more than you do about this subject. Those of them who shoot revolvers use .454 Casull on up for a reason. They work, and can reliably anchor animals bigger and tougher than brown bears.

I'm just curious why revolvers are so much slower to shoot? What's wrong? Your little girl arms can't yank a 50 ounce wheel gun out of a holster and drive it out in front of you? Are you afraid that the beastie will be unimpressed with your slower split times between shots, and therefore be unaffected by the 300-400gr bullets you just hammered him with?

What it sounds like to me is that you would rather press a tool you're comfortable with into service because you're not willing to devote the time to learn how to utilize a better tool for that job. I'll admit that practice with a big bore revolver can be unpleasant with full house loads, but it's not insurmountable.

Really? If you're going to resort to insults then maybe you should understand that many of us don't feel we need to prove our manliness or compensate for shortcomings by carrying the biggest baddest caliber handgun. I can shoot anything and do so accurately. But a charging bear isn't going to provide you with much time. The physics involved in recoil and shot recovery with a 454 Cassull are slower than a 10mm Glock. Doesn't matter who the shooter is - get the best shooter from Delta, a Grandmaster competition shooter, and a newbie who just got his first gun. All of them will be faster with the Glock and get more shots on target in the same amount of time as with a magnum revolver.

And it is more than just "pressing a duty style weapon into service" for bears. I shoot a lot. Almost weekly. I compete, go to classes and 99% of that is with a Glock. Sure I could put in the time to master a revolver. But if I can use a Glock for that role and thereby leverage all my training and competition - why not? Unless I drastically alter my routine, I will always be much faster with a Glock. And I'm much more likely to be forced to shoot a two legged predator with my duty G19 than a bear with anything. I also find it telling that two people who live and work in Alaska stated they rely or used to rely on 10mm. The one who dropped it moved to 45 Super.

What would you consider a realistic test? You use your bear revolver with full power ammo and I'll use my G40 with the same. An 8" circle at 7 or 10 yards? With a certain par time based on the time a person can expect when being charged?

And where the hell do I find phone books in 2016? Lol! Can't recall the last time I saw one.

[El Cid]

There is a big difference between hunting a brown bear and defending against a brown bear with a handgun.

Hunting certainly favors the large bore revolver because you absolutely need to kill the bear, you are likely shooting at greater distances than defending against a bear, and you are likely shooting for the heart/lungs, possibly at an angle where you first need to penetrate bones.

To stop a bear attack, you simply need to make the bear decide it doesn't want to mess with you. Like people, many bears don't like being shot. That is part of the reason, in the longest running compilation of stats on bear attacks, handguns, many in common service calibers, are slightly more effective than long guns in stopping attacks. The other reason being that handguns are easier to deploy once the attack goes ECQC.

If you had a large determined bear attack you, that only would stop when you penetrate the brain, the big bore revolver would have the edge. If, as statistics show is the case, you only need to make the bear leave you alone, the 10mm/45 Super semi auto becomes pretty good as it holds more rounds, is easier to shoot follow up shots with, and it better than a heavy revolver against a variety of other two and four leg threats.

Did you see the thread over on PF where they discussed the "flash bang" effect? The effectiveness of the old school .357 magnum rounds with their 1 and 2 shot stops may have been aided by the old school powder of the day with the giant fireball and concussion. They even referenced an NYPD stakeout shooting where a bad guy dropped to the ground screaming for help after a cop fired at close range with a 12 gauge - turns out the cop missed but a part of that thug's brain made him believe he had been killed. Makes me wonder if that would be an advantage for the magnum revolver as even a large powerful beast won't like having a small explosion in its face.

[Gunnar da Wolf]

I'm thinking of adding a G19 to the arsenal, that grip adapter might make me like them better. Thanks for the info.

Many moons ago I had a ported M29 S&W. While practicing low light shooting a friend who was standing behind me remarked that every time I fired it looked like a dragon had sneezed. That'd scare the crap out of anything.

I live in WV, our bear are under 400# and fleet of foot due to liberal hunting seasons. My woods experience doesn't qualify me to comment much. But my agency issued the S&W 1006 for several years and our first ammo was some 200 gr fmj truncated cone stuff that was all the supply guy could find. You could have killed a bear standing behind a Buick. It definitely had "adequate" penetration and I'd think that some type of water dropped cast or monometal projectile pushed as hard as a 10mm can go would be quite adequate given a good hit or six.

"FPE" really doesn't tell the whole tale when you're talking about shooting dangerous game. Accuracy and penetration are paramount and toting a gun you're comfortable with is the best of all worlds.

[sinister]

Please don't re-direct into another pie fight.

Bears and moose don't care what you're shooting it with, how much noise you make, or if it flashes.

Disconnect its central nervous system and call it a day. Rejoice in life.

People who don't live and play where there are bears, take a chill pill. Take deep breaths. Nobody cares what you own, how often you shoot it, or why. People are asking for advice -- couch your answers like they're recommendations, vice "This is the only answer," please.

From the original post, "How much time do you spend in Grizzly country a year?"