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Thread: Loaded for Bear - Is 10mm Sufficient?

  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacMedic556 View Post
    Whether it's 700, 800 even 900 ft/lbs out of the 10mm I do not trust or with to carry the 10mm and know many that feel the same while in Grizzly country. I consider the 44 mag with a 300+ grain projectile wit 1150-1250 ft/lbs at the minimum. I spent September this year all the way to November 27th in the Mountains, immersed in Grizzly habitat. We harvested over 12 animals among the hunting parties and we removed 4 elk from Grizzly areas, one of them over two days, returning to a kill site. Walking into a previous kill site 24 hours after butchering and quartering an elk makes one want the biggest gun they can carry. I carried my 629 with a 6" barrel for 3 months and I cannot even tell it is there.

    I work with a guy who's cousin was in a documented encounter up in the YAAK river area with a Sow Grizzly and two cubs. He emptied a magazine with a Glock 10mm - the bears luckily ran off. It is unknown if the bears were hit at all and FWP agents never found a dead or wounded bear anywhere in the area, or sign of one. The individual in this case, since has chosen a larger pistol to carry.

    This thread was not started as a pissing match or even a "my guns better than your gun" thread. It was started as a personal opinion of whether or not the 10mm cartridge is sufficient for charging dangerous game that weighs 450-700 lbs.
    If you have read the whole thread, you would know that I had an opinion posted in the earlier in the thread that mirrors yours. I didn't suggest my particular load was bear medicine. The point of the two post below yours was pointing out that you undercut the 10mm a little by stating 5-700 ftlbs. I have seen safe (but very hot) loads at a 900 ftlbs. I'd like to see the .357 that hits that energy.
    Last edited by soulezoo; 12-05-16 at 13:21.

  2. #282
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    Montana Bear Attack

    Update on this weeks Grizzly attack here in NW Montana. Bear was killed after suffering 3 shots from a 44 magnum revolver.

    In thick brush while hunting black bears, the mans adult son was attacked by a Grizzly that grabbed his arm. The father fired, hitting the bear and then fired again. Bear was found nearby, dead.

    "Buckallew’s father, in turn, shot the bear with a .44 magnum pistol as it bit Buckallew’s arm. The FWP investigation said the father, who was not named, shot the bear three times.

    The bear let go and ran away."


    http://www.hungryhorsenews.com/artic...ICLE/170929952
    http://www.ktvh.com/2017/09/fwp-hunt...tacked-his-son
    http://www.abcfoxmontana.com/story/3...tell-his-story
    http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articl...ICLE/170929873
    Last edited by TacMedic556; 09-27-17 at 17:37.

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacMedic556 View Post
    Update on this weeks Grizzly attack here in NW Montana. Bear was killed after suffering 3 shots from a 44 magnum revolver.

    In thick brush while hunting black bears, the mans adult son was attacked by a Grizzly that grabbed his arm. The father fired, hitting the bear and then fired again. Bear was found nearby, dead.

    "Buckallew’s father, in turn, shot the bear with a .44 magnum pistol as it bit Buckallew’s arm. The FWP investigation said the father, who was not named, shot the bear three times.

    The bear let go and ran away."


    http://www.hungryhorsenews.com/artic...ICLE/170929952
    http://www.ktvh.com/2017/09/fwp-hunt...tacked-his-son
    http://www.abcfoxmontana.com/story/3...tell-his-story
    http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articl...ICLE/170929873
    "FWP says all hunters and recreationists should carry bear spray as a deterrent option; bears this time of year, are actively feeding in preparation for winter, which can lead to more encounters with bears. Click*here*for FWP’s tips to be more Bear Aware."
    I'll take a 10mm over bear spray at <12 ft thank you!

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    Let's use the First Amendment to protect the Second so we can avoid using the Second to protect the First.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacMedic556 View Post
    Update on this weeks Grizzly attack here in NW Montana. Bear was killed after suffering 3 shots from a 44 magnum revolver.

    In thick brush while hunting black bears, the mans adult son was attacked by a Grizzly that grabbed his arm. The father fired, hitting the bear and then fired again. Bear was found nearby, dead.

    "Buckallew’s father, in turn, shot the bear with a .44 magnum pistol as it bit Buckallew’s arm. The FWP investigation said the father, who was not named, shot the bear three times.

    The bear let go and ran away."


    http://www.hungryhorsenews.com/artic...ICLE/170929952
    http://www.ktvh.com/2017/09/fwp-hunt...tacked-his-son
    http://www.abcfoxmontana.com/story/3...tell-his-story
    http://www.dailyinterlake.com/articl...ICLE/170929873
    The biggest takeaway I get from this incident is not so much what to carry for bear defense, but don't be in bear country alone or separated from your buddies. Assuming of course all of you are suitably armed.

  5. #285
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    Makes me glad I just picked up a 44.

  6. #286
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    A cousin of mine spends several months out of the year up there, so I defer to him what works up there and what won't. FWIW he seems to have more trouble with the 2 legged wildlife up there than the 4 legged.

    I don't think he goes anywhere outside without his Remington 7400 in .35 Whelen, but last time he was down here (keeps a residence in Missouri) he bought a G40, swapped out the OEM barrel for an Alpha Wolf and worked up a 200 grain hardcast load with Blue Dot.

  7. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
    "FWP says all hunters and recreationists should carry bear spray as a deterrent option; bears this time of year, are actively feeding in preparation for winter, which can lead to more encounters with bears. Click*here*for FWP’s tips to be more Bear Aware."
    I'll take a 10mm over bear spray at <12 ft thank you!

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
    As much as I admire and respect brown bears, that would be a tough call to make in a close encounter if I was carrying a gun and bear spray - spray and take the chance it attacks through it or use lethal force right away. I'm guessing a healthy adult brown bear can cover 25 feet in under 3 seconds, at most. I guess I answered my own dilemma. I have no experience with bears, but for that distance, I can't imagine solely relying on bear spray without knowing if you'd have the opportunity to transition to a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaholder View Post
    A cousin of mine spends several months out of the year up there, so I defer to him what works up there and what won't. FWIW he seems to have more trouble with the 2 legged wildlife up there than the 4 legged.

    I don't think he goes anywhere outside without his Remington 7400 in .35 Whelen, but last time he was down here (keeps a residence in Missouri) he bought a G40, swapped out the OEM barrel for an Alpha Wolf and worked up a 200 grain hardcast load with Blue Dot.
    If I was hiking out West, my carry gun would need to be a compromise between 2-legged and 4-legged predators - animals are predictable to a degree, humans not so much. To me, a 4", six-shot, double-action .44 mag seems like the best compromise for both.
    Last edited by sundance435; 12-20-17 at 13:13.

  8. #288
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    Just in the process of getting myself a g20 for woods carry. I like the idea of more rounds and less recoil/muzzle blast. Should cover either type of predator.

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    "It is better to be a Warrior in a Garden than a Gardner in a War"
    Let's use the First Amendment to protect the Second so we can avoid using the Second to protect the First.

  9. #289
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    I picked up a G20 to use as a woods gun about two years ago, but I also recently picked up a S&W 629-6 4" that I'll carry hunting or when I'm in areas with known bear activity. Granted, the black bears here in NC are nothing compared to the big browns out west and in Alaska, but that .44 magnum will be a lot more comforting in the holster.
    “An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.” - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrike View Post
    What bear? An average blackie of 130-220 lbs? Good bullets and good aim, a 10 mm will do probably.
    A 350lbs and up Grizzly I would not. Although in theory a good hard bullet in the brain will do.
    For bigger bears just go straight to the 44 mag or souped up 45 cal with hard cast bullets.
    They will kill a big bear but not sure if it will stop a charge, unless hit in the brain.
    Best always carry a rifle. In the late 1970's or early 80's, I test fired 12 ga foster type slugs into a 800 lbs dead polar bear's shoulder from 6-10 feet away. The Remington or Winchester slugs flattened like silver dollars on the shoulder blade. 12 ga. SSG from 10 feet just made it through the hide and blubber again no penetration into the chest cavity. I would not hesitate using it on the average blackie, but NOT on big bears.
    A rifle is needed .
    I haven't read all 29 pages, but of the one or two I've read, this guys nails it.

    I find these endless "bear" threads humorous, annoying and interesting.

    I have killed 9 black bear and only one with a handgun, the latter that was a very bad fight with a small black bear I shot 6 times with a .44 Magnum {all lethal and if I do say so myself, demonstrative of darn good pistoling under very tough conditions!} and I've hunted killed bear with friends, and live in and work and recreate in bear country, owning a ranch slam in the middle of bearyland. Due to the wondrous anti-wisdom of the Federal government, grizzly continue to expand their range into my stomping grounds which is as annoying as the worthless tripe they gave us in wolves. My friends, my son who is a production forester with a timber company and thereby in the bush constantly and myself all carry what here would be seen as ridiculous, stupid, useless guns for defense.

    And so they might be, but they are what we are willing to carry everywhere we go.

    The fellow here is dead right. Shotguns are utterly NOT what the millrun internet supposer suggests them to be. Handguns are what they are; lethal and sometimes handy things that might help, but cannot be counted on to perform as one might wish tho many {that is almost all} are "lethal" tho you don't know the timing of the decease and thereby don't know how much mayhem said soon-to-be dead bear may cause before experiencing it. If you really need a defense against a mean bear dedicated or even sort of half-dedicated to hurting you or converting you to energy + feces, carry a rifle, and make sure it is a good stout rifle of good bore and energy and bullet persuasion, cuz all of the preceding matter.

    I also own a 1000 yard range and can shoot whatever I want on whatever I wish and test bore and cartridge on everything we can conceive of testing from steer skulls to steel plate and bags of sodden grass mulch and wheel rims. with service-type pistols I've killed literally truckloads of butcher stock from the 40 to 250 pound range and shot steers with service pistols on top of the heap. On really resistant media...the shotgun is an unreliable companion. I've read that some with good experience trust upper bores loaded with solid shot, at least round ball and heavily loaded RB at that. I suppose that makes sense.

    Guys, face it, 99.9 % of the folks speculating about this issue will never even see a live bear outside of a zoo. 99.99999% of the 330 million Muricans will never actually kill a bear in a fight.

    But it seems that some 500 million are interested in what they might need to rely on if that day happens.

    Which is the part that makes these threads so interesting.

    This is the pipsqueak that caused me so much trouble, as small ones around here so often do...

    I accept with sincere belief the doctrine of faith as handed down to us from the Apostles by the orthodox Fathers, always in the same sense and with the same interpretation.
    Pope Pius X

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