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Thread: Loaded for Bear - Is 10mm Sufficient?

  1. #291
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    I'm envious. You really are living the dream. Thanks for all of the good information that you post.

    Quote Originally Posted by EVR View Post
    Guys, face it, 99.9 % of the folks speculating about this issue will never even see a live bear outside of a zoo. 99.99999% of the 330 million Muricans will never actually kill a bear in a fight. But it seems that some 500 million are interested in what they might need to rely on if that day happens. Which is the part that makes these threads so interesting.
    Imho, the numbers that you post about life threatening bear encounters can be pretty much be equated to life threatening bad-guy encounters in the city. Even the odds are nil, it's good to be prepared regardless of which environment that you are walking around in. We go camping and hiking once or twice a year up in grizzly country in MT. No, I'll probably never see a big griz up close, but if I do, at least I'm prepared while I'll be crapping my pants.
    U.S. Army vet. -- Retired 25 year LEO.

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Det-Sog View Post
    I'm envious. You really are living the dream. Thanks for all of the good information that you post.



    Imho, the numbers that you post about life threatening bear encounters can be pretty much be equated to life threatening bad-guy encounters in the city. Even the odds are nil, it's good to be prepared regardless of which environment that you are walking around in. We go camping and hiking once or twice a year up in grizzly country in MT. No, I'll probably never see a big griz up close, but if I do, at least I'm prepared while I'll be crapping my pants.
    Seems fair enough, and a good plan!!
    I accept with sincere belief the doctrine of faith as handed down to us from the Apostles by the orthodox Fathers, always in the same sense and with the same interpretation.
    Pope Pius X

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Det-Sog View Post
    I'm envious. You really are living the dream. Thanks for all of the good information that you post.



    Imho, the numbers that you post about life threatening bear encounters can be pretty much be equated to life threatening bad-guy encounters in the city. Even the odds are nil, it's good to be prepared regardless of which environment that you are walking around in. We go camping and hiking once or twice a year up in grizzly country in MT. No, I'll probably never see a big griz up close, but if I do, at least I'm prepared while I'll be crapping my pants.
    Brown bears walk through my back yard and I have had to kill bears in self defense and in defense of the community. Not everyone's situation is the same.
    Serving as a LEO since 1999.
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  4. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Brown bears walk through my back yard and I have had to kill bears in self defense and in defense of the community. Not everyone's situation is the same.
    That's correct, and that's what I was saying.

    Of the 325 million+- Americans those of us that have killed bear and needed to kill bear probably could all gather at a Costco and we probably couldn't shop enough to pay the day's utility bill. Yet these "bear threads" have got to be some of the most active forum threads regardless of topic!

    It's quite amazing at how popular they are!
    I accept with sincere belief the doctrine of faith as handed down to us from the Apostles by the orthodox Fathers, always in the same sense and with the same interpretation.
    Pope Pius X

  5. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskapopo View Post
    Brown bears walk through my back yard and I have had to kill bears in self defense and in defense of the community. Not everyone's situation is the same.
    Agreed. I was not implying otherwise.
    U.S. Army vet. -- Retired 25 year LEO.

  6. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by EVR View Post
    That's correct, and that's what I was saying.

    Of the 325 million+- Americans those of us that have killed bear and needed to kill bear probably could all gather at a Costco and we probably couldn't shop enough to pay the day's utility bill. Yet these "bear threads" have got to be some of the most active forum threads regardless of topic!

    It's quite amazing at how popular they are!
    From getting to know just a few Alaskans . . . I bet that for a person who lives in or recreates in grizz/brown bear habitat extensively, the odds of a defensive encounter with one are vastly higher than most American's odds of being in a defensive encounter with a human criminal in our respective towns, suburbs etc.
    "Whatever it's for; it wasn't possible until now!!!" - KrampusArms

  7. #297
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    https://www.apnews.com/52770a5fd65948c997fadc3d96591f1d

    "Friday’s attack shows how a hunter can carry both a gun and bear spray and still become the hunted."
    " At the scene of the attack, they found a used can of bear spray, which wildlife officials often advocate as the best defense"

    "Chubon tried to throw a handgun to Uptain during the attack but it fell short, he told WESH 2 News in Orlando, Florida."

    “Somehow the grizzly let me go and charged Mark again. And that’s when I made the decision to just run for my life,” Chubon told the TV station Sunday.
    "In 2017, wildlife managers tallied 273 conflicts between humans and grizzly bears in the region spanning northwest Wyoming, southeast Montana and eastern Idaho. Almost two-thirds of those involved attacks on cattle.

    "Wildlife officials killed at least nine grizzlies last year due to livestock attacks. Hunters acting in self-defense killed 15 grizzlies."

    Let's use the gun instead of throwing it at the guy getting mauled. A similar incident happened to a friend of mine several years ago. He introduced a 30-06 barrel into the Sows head and injected lead into her brain stem, saving his friend.

    This sounds like a guided individual from Florida that survived.

    Narrative of attack: https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/...22416a744.html
    "Chubon went for a Glock that his guide had left with their gear a few yards uphill. For some reason, he could not get the handgun to fire. "

    "Within moments, the bear turned back toward Uptain. Chubon, whose leg, chest and arms were lacerated by the bruin, ran for his life. His last view of Uptain, which he relayed to investigators, was of the guide on his feet trying to fight off the sow."
    Last edited by TacMedic556; 09-19-18 at 17:11. Reason: make bold

  8. #298
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    https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/1...k-just-barely/

    When a New Mexico hunting guide*reportedly*found himself the target of a bear, he dropped his phone and reached for his pistol. It would turn out to be one of the best decisions he ever made. An earlier decision, though, threatened to cost him his life.

    He’d been working out his dogs in preparation for the upcoming hunting season when they’d struck a bear’s trail. The only way to put an end to that was to catch up with his dogs, so he pursued, with family members following. As he approached the fight, he grabbed his not-fully-loaded pistol as he left his UTV.


    As an afterthought, he took the GLOCK 20 10mm pistol from his vehicle and shoved it in his waistband behind his cowboy belt. It was loaded with 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty FlexLock loads. The magazine only had 10-12 rounds in it. A few months earlier, he had heard the theory of “spring set” and decided not to keep the magazine fully loaded.

    He approached the melee, expecting the bear to run at the sight of him. And when he spotted the bruin, he grabbed his phone to take some video of its unusual cinnamon coloration. But the bear had other ideas.

    Bridger’s first thought was to get video. It would be an incredible image. Big cinnamon bears aren’t common. The bear would run at any moment, once he saw or smelled the man. Bridger grabbed his phone.

    That bear never read the rulebook. It didn’t run. The bear saw Bridger, turned toward him, and flattened its ears back along its head. Its eyes had locked on Bridger. He’d watched hundreds of bears in similar situations and he knew he’d been targeted. He dropped the phone and snatched the GLOCK from his belt.

    A lot happened very fast, but for Bridger, everything slowed down as he went into tachypsychia. It’s a common occurrence in high stress life-or-death situations. The mind speeds up and events appear to be happening in slow motion. In reality, the person is acting faster than they ever have before.

    The bear was coming for him. Bridger elected not to aim for the head. He didn’t want to hit one of his dogs. He triggered two or three shots aimed at the bear’s body. The bear started to spin, snapping at the wounds, about six feet away.

    Bridger decided to retreat. He turned and hopped to the next boulder, then the next. He was mid air to the third when he saw dogs moving past him.

    In his fast mind-state, he realized this was bad. As he landed and turned, the big GLOCK in his hand, and saw the bear coming at him like an over-sized NFL linebacker with claws and big, pointy teeth.

    Before he could fire again, the bear hit him. They went over the edge of the shelf together, tumbling down a steep, rocky slope in mortal combat.

    Although he has no memory of shooting as they fell, empty shells were later found along the path of their descent.

    Bear and man stopped downslope, wedged into brush and boulders. Bridger could feel the bear and frantically attempted to disentangle. The bear reared erect, jaws ready to strike. Bridger shot him again, in the front of his chest before falling/sliding further down the slope. The bear pursued him. He screamed at Janelle to stay away.

    Bridger tried to kick the bear away from him as it tried to get at his upper body. He couldn’t shoot for fear of hitting his own legs.

    The bear dodged a kick, and grabbed Bridger’s right inner thigh in its jaws, lifting him like a dog lifting a rabbit. Bridger shoved the muzzle of the GLOCK against the bears neck, trying to shatter its spine and shut the bear down. He fired.

    The bear released his lower thigh, then grabbed his calf, just below the knee. The shot missed the spine. Man and bear are still moving fast, but in Bridger’s hyper-aware state, time slowed. He saw an opportunity for a headshot and pressed the trigger on the GLOCK.

    Click.

    Later, Bridger found bear hair between the guide rod and the slide of the G20 pistol. The hair prevented the slide from returning into battery. Bridger knew he should still have ammunition left in the magazine, so he racked the slide and saw a live round eject in slow motion.

    Fractions of a second later, another opportunity for a head shot presented itself. The bear ripped at his leg. As the bear tried to tear off his calf muscle, Bridger saw his chance and pressed the trigger.

    Blam!

    Man and bear went down together, rolling and sliding a bit further down the slope.

    Although the bear was dead, its teeth were still hopelessly tangled in Bridger’s calf muscle. When rescue personnel arrived — quickly, thanks to his family’s close proximity at the time of the attack — they struggled and failed to free the meat from the fangs. Only after cutting the bear’s head off with a pocket knife could they transport Bridger and his now-gray leg muscle.

    Which was another problem. After seeing the aftermath of a helicopter crash months before, Bridger had sworn never to ride in a chopper. But that was his only choice…

    As he heard the rescue helicopter come in, Bridger started saying “I am not going on that thing!”

    The helicopter landed asd [sic] shock was setting in. Bridger started convulsing. Bridger told one of the flight paramedics from the helicopter, a lovely young woman, that he couldn’t ride in that machine.

    She hooked up an intravenous drip as they transferred him from the mountain litter to a gurney. “Let me help you get more comfortable,” she said. She reached across and fastened the chest strap, leaned over, lips close to his ear, and said, “Honey, you don’t have a choice.”

    The morphine started to hit. The world changed, and Bridger said, “Lets go!”

    Surgery took more than 4 hours, and he received more than 200 stitches.

    The article says Bridger is “thinking about heavier, deeper-penetrating bullets in 10mm cartridges designed for bear defense, to carry in his GLOCK.”

    I’d say that’s not a bad idea… although a revolver chambered for a more powerful round might be a better one.
    "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson.

  9. #299
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    Wow! Couple of seriously wicked stories. $hit gets REAL really quick!

    Guide in the second story may have been better off if he’d not retreated and made sure that bear was dead at first exchange, but still, dude was tougher than nails to live through that ordeal.
    Last edited by BuzzinSATX; 09-20-18 at 07:27. Reason: Typos

  10. #300
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    I live in urban Texas, not rural Alaska.

    But when I read about bear spray as a first line of defense, I think this way:

    Let's analogize it to an urban Texas problem: gangstas and thugz. A bear can be all over you in seconds; so can a gang.

    Do urban pistol-packers also carry a can of pepper foam with the intention of deploying the foam first, and then, only if that doesn't appear to work, going for the firearm?

    Not ones that want to survive! By the time your pepper foam fails, you're out of time and out of options.


    Wouldn't it be the same for the Bear?

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