Legality of Vertical Forward Grip

[MountainRaven]

I wonder how many people have - ignorant of the law - purchased stocks and "carbine" kits for their Glocks and SiGs and never once thought of filing a Form 1. Or how many people have bought SBR uppers for their ARs without ever thinking about, "All NFA rules apply," means in the product description.

Never mind the countless Bubba Gunsmithed unregistered machine guns, guys who possess AR pistols and AR rifles and have "just tried" putting their pistol uppers on their rifle lowers, unregistered machine guns brought back from WWII, Vietnam, Korea, and the GWOT - where some guys didn't know what they were doing was illegal and some knew full well.

Does anybody know if that guy "guarding" the recruitment office with his almost certainly unregistered AOW (AR pistol with less than 10" bbl, with brace, and VFG) was ever arrested or charged? Does anybody even care? What about Bobby Onco and his AK at Wounded Knee? Does the ATF simply assume that such people are lawfully in possession of properly registered NFA items barring evidence of another crime or of the crime of possessing an unregistered NFA firearm?

Now, I'm not saying that anybody should ignore federal law - I don't think f___ing up your life and becoming a federal felon for want of $200 is worth it - but I do wonder about how vigorously the ATF prosecutes people who violate these laws (particularly in the light of how lax prosecution for violating gun laws are in this country and the fact that the ATF almost certainly has bigger fish to fry than some otherwise law-abiding Joe Blow who made the mistake of allowing his picture to be taken posing with an unregistered AOW while standing outside a recruiting center).

Perhaps this is a can of worms best left unopened.

[Renegade]

Friendlyfireisnt is correct, with one caveat.
Barrel length on a pistol or firearm is irrelevant.
The presence, or lack of, a stock is the determining factor in pistols and firearms.

That is but one determining factor. Here is the actual Fed definition:

(29) The term “handgun” means—
(A) a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
(B) any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

So as you can see the short stock is one factor, and "held and fired by the use of a single hand" is the other. Hence why you cannot add a vertical grip to a pistol, it no longer is a pistol by definition.

[Rogue556]

I wonder how many people have - ignorant of the law - purchased stocks and "carbine" kits for their Glocks and SiGs and never once thought of filing a Form 1. Or how many people have bought SBR uppers for their ARs without ever thinking about, "All NFA rules apply," means in the product description.

I would be willing to bet, based off of what I've seen of the average Joe gun owner, that there are probably quite a few in that category. A few years ago a friend of mine, looking for his first AR, bought a Colt upper at a gun show with a 14.5" barrel and an unpinned flash hider not understanding the law. (The table selling it either didn't know, didn't let him know, or didn't check if it was pinned). Luckily he didn't have a lower yet, and upon showing off his purchase to me I informed him it was an NFA item and what needed to be done. I also know there are plenty in the "I know the law but don't plan on being caught" category. These idiots are the ones at gun shows (one of many reasons I don't frequent those anymore) and your LGS talking openly about how "No one would ever know" and "If they arrest me I'll show them the Constitution". (I've heard the latter more times than I can count). I guess some people really think the juice is somehow worth the squeeze?

[Flankenstein]

^Enemy

[Rogue556]

If not advocating breaking the law labels me an enemy in your mind then so be it. I still think it's stupid to risk jail time for a few inches in barrel length (or any of the other restrictions currently in place). I don't like the laws by any means and would love to buy over the counter suppressors, and own auto weapons and short barreled rifles without the fees, paperwork and registration involved, but that's not our reality unfortunately. I'd also love to flash the Constitution at anyone who tried to force me to follow these pointless feel good laws as if the Constitution was some kind of heavy duty off-branded socialist repellent but I'm also not naive enough to think that would protect me in the slightest bit. I'd rather have gun owners writting their reps, donating their time to teaching others properly about firearms, donating money to the NRA-ILA and like minded associations, and voting bad apples out of office. They are no help sitting behind bars.

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[KITTEN_FRENZY]

AR pistols are technically legal in Chicago.
All pistol laws went bye bye when the firearms concealed carry act went through.

[t1tan]

legal/illegal ≠ right/wrong

[daniel87]

AR pistols are technically legal in Chicago.
All pistol laws went bye bye when the firearms concealed carry act went through.

Remember the county law. Has that been thrown out yet??

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[KITTEN_FRENZY]

Remember the county law. Has that been thrown out yet??

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Any law regarding handguns or portions of laws regarding handguns are preempted from what I gather.
Local laws had something like 90 days or something to make their own restrictions, which Chicago did not.
There's was a case going on about some dude in Highland park who got busted with >15 rd mags. I'm not sure what's become of it since I last read about it.

[ABNAK]

So a pistol with a 10.5" barrel, LAW Tactical folder, and Shockwave Blade would be measured (to define it as a "firearm" and legally use a VFG) with the folder open, i.e. not folded? End of total assembly (or buffer tube?) to the end of barrel threads?