Some Pistol Talk...

**Bulletdog** · 05-25-16, 12:44

I took my first class in 1996 with a Sig 226. It was a 2 day General Handgun class, and there were a lot of different makes and models up and down the line. My instructors showed us all the "in and outs" of each of them. By the end of the 2 days, I saw the value of the Glock and decided to get a 17 to try out and see if I liked it. I did.

I took a lot more classes and I shot the hell out of the 17. They nick named me "Tommy Gun" after some rapid fire strings. At a Gunsight class (I got to meet Col. Cooper in the Sconce…) we were shooting drills on steel with one of those 3' tall "pepper popper" targets as the final target of the string. It was cut in half and whomever's half hit the ground first was the winner of the head-to-head shooting string. I went up against a guy with a Glock 21. I outran him by a mile, but when we got to the final split-in-half pepper popper, my shot went "plink" and my half began falling in slow motion. About a second later his final shot went "kerplunk" and that target dropped like a rock. He won. Next string I literally pushed my half down with multiple rapid fire shots, living up to my nick-name. Plink-plink-plink-plink-plink-plink-plink… No one said you could only shoot the final target once.

This got me thinking about "stopping power". C'mon. You guys remember the arguments/discussions we all had over this in the 90's… I picked up a Glock 21 of my own, and made it my main in shooter for a long time and many classes. I liked it and handled it well. Picked up a 30 too, and shot the snot out of that one as well. I became dissatisfied with the speed of the gun during rapid fire drills and I wasn't thrilled with the results from one-handed, off-hand drills either. In addition, concealability wasn't the best with either of those fatties.

About this time the .40 was coming out and getting a lot of press. I gave it a go. "Stopping power" similar to a .45, but in a package that was lighter, faster and smaller like my old 17. I shot the 22 for a couple of years and then switched to the 23 for concealablility once I got my out-of-state CCWs all lined up. I shot that 23 for many years after that, and was happy. Then a friend of mine, a member of this forum, comes along and explains the whole "stopping power" caliber debate to me again. I considered all this with an open mind. I pulled out the old 17, and a 19 too, and went to the range to compare how I liked them back to back with my beloved 23. HOLY COW! My group sizes shrank by a third and speed increased by a third. Plus I had more rounds to work with in the mag. Increased speed, accuracy and round count trumped any lingering doubts I had about "stopping power". I've been shooting the 19 for almost 10 years now, while the others collect dust in the safe.

Last week, I did my civic duty and took a bunch of new and interested shooters to the range. We'd been discussing the different makes, models and calibers, so I brought an assortment for them to try out. It felt good to shoot the Sig, the 22, 23, 21 and 30 again. Like visiting old friends. They all shot fine and rounds went where I wanted them to, when I wanted them to. All had a good time and learned a lot. Then, I wanted to run a few drills on my own (showing off…) with my usual 19. Wow! What a difference. I just shoot the 9mm so much better. Smoother, faster, more accurately. I was not expecting to notice such a difference, but the paper and the timer told the story. When shot back to back like that, the difference was very noticeable.

Anyhow. That's my story. Nothing groundbreaking or shocking. Just gun conversation for a gun forum. I like my 9mm Glocks.

**sevenhelmet** · 05-25-16, 13:02

Thanks for sharing your story, Bullet.

I think the best advice I have gotten on the caliber front is that a pistol is a compromise no matter what the caliber, so use the one you shoot the best. I never took to .40, it just feels harsh to me and I don't shoot it well. I started off with a .45, and I still like that caliber. But I've adopted 9mm as my main pistol caliber due to increased speed and capacity over .45 for the same accuracy. It's cheaper to practice with too, which counts for a lot.

**HeruMew** · 05-25-16, 13:08

Thanks for sharing Bulletdog,

Even more thanks for taking the time with some new shooters to educate them and give them a variety to experience.

It's that kind of awesome kindness that brings more into the fold of the Gun Community, building more responsible firearm users/handlers; hopefully owners.

Thanks for sharing!

**WickedWillis** · 05-25-16, 13:45

Great story Bullet. While I haven't been training as long as you, I can really sympathize with your story. I was one of the ".40 because Cops, and 9mm is too weak!" crowd when I first got into handguns. My first was a Gen 2 Glock 22, and I hated how snappy it was, and I shot it like trash. I then transitioned to a Springfield XDM in 9mm, because I assumed the fault was with Glock and not with my awesome skills, and I had countless problems with it. I sold it, and traded into a well used Gen 3 Glock 26.

I shot that Glock 26 better than anything else in my life at that point, but I was still silly about being a "Glock guy". I have flirted with other lines, but when I bought my first Glock 19 Gen 4, I just simply realized that I am a Glock guy, and I need to stop fighting it. I am more efficient and comfortable with Glocks than just about every handgun I pick up and shoot. So I too, love my 9mm Glocks. It's been an expensive journey for me just to realize that

EDIT: I still love shooting .45's (G21, HK45, G30), I am just way too invested in 9mm Glocks to really train and focus on that caliber.

**MStarmer** · 05-25-16, 16:15

I keep chasing that "unicorn" pistol that graces the cover of each new magazine. Alas, very few compete with my G27 for time actually carried and shot. When I started training at my first class in 1990 I started with a D&L custom 1911 (in .45 of course). But as much as we all love 1911's they're hard to carry. When the Glock 19 came out I had to have one and carried and shot that thing over 15k before selling it to a co-worker. Carried G22/23/27 without issue. Gave the M&P a chance but I'm down to one (and a Shield), PPQ, 229, XDm and the latest a Sig P320. I find fault with just about all of them. M&P trigger and grouping, PPQ slide shape and complicated detail stripping, 229 size and weight, XDm horribly over complicated with too many do-dads (can't rack the slide without grip safety being depressed mainly). The Sig 320 is the one gun that has really given my Glock edc a run for the money. The ability to shoot this thing well, change grip frames, slide lengths and calibers at will is huge to me. I've got about 4k thru one and I shoot it better than just about anything I own. In fact my wife and daughter liked it so much they both have one now too.

With all that being said my absolute only "one-gun" choice, choice for end of the world or harshest life would still be a Glock 19 with good steel sights and a dozen mags.

**Baldness** · 05-25-16, 17:36

I've had an expensive tour around the handgun world as well. Started with a gen 3 glock 23, then got a sig p245 (never should have sold that one) Then briefly a 7 shot smith and wesson L frame snubbie (stupid) A pps (excellent weapon) a springfield champion operator but have now settled on a gen2 glock 19, and a glock 43 for when I can't carry the 19. Just can't find better pistols in my opinion than 9mm glocks. They are reliable tools

**samuse** · 05-25-16, 19:41

I've run the gamut of Glock, Sig, Beretta, and custom 1911s.

At the end of all that, I'll keep my P226 for a bedside HD pistol, and a Glock 17K, 43, or Sig P239 for carry.

**LDM** · 05-26-16, 08:12

Originally Posted by MStarmer

I keep chasing that "unicorn" pistol that graces the cover of each new magazine.

Oh man, did that statement resonate.

There are so many good choices today it is bewildering. Even within a given class of pistol (i.e. DA/SA, striker, 1911, etc.) there are usually several good choices.
One lesson I think I may have just re-learned: better to stay within one class. I can pick up a Sig P320 or Walther PPQ and handling and manual of arms is substantially the same.
On a whim I recently picked up a Walther P99. Fine pistol; unique in that it is striker fired and can be run DA/SA, as well as its unique AS mode which is like a long stroke, set trigger SA (sorta like a H&K LEM... sorta). But working it in DA/SA has resulted in the start of some muscle memory confusion that I do not think mixes well with my striker pistols.
Ergo: pick a class of pistol that works for you, stay with it, and get as good at it as you can with it.

**Gunnar da Wolf** · 05-26-16, 10:11

The few things learned from the FBI bullet test protocols were that you need adequate penetration and buried down in there was that a handgun bullet typically only damages about a pound of flesh. Take a pound of burger and decide how that needs to be stretched to fit in a torso and create "stopping power" worthy damage around the vital organs...

9mm will do it with good marksmanship and ammunition. Most people shoot the 9mm very well with a modicum of training and practice.

I've carried a 1911 since the early '80s and it's an extension of my hand. I've never learned to like the Glock line of pistols, they're accurate and reliable but point funny for me. Plus my thumb needs something to do during the draw stroke. I reload .45acp with cast bullets very cheaply and going to the reloading shed gets me away from watching the Press try to elevate Hillary to sainthood on the boob tube. .45 isn't a quantum step above 9mm but it whats in my magazines (when I'm not carrying a S&W Mountain Gun).