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Thread: Vltor A5 vs. Geissele Super 42, which is better?

  1. #21
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    OP: Braided wire springs have advantages "in theory" but I don't think anything has been proven in this application. Bill Geissele has shown his engineering capability and cleverness with many different products so I expect it's a good idea, but until it's proven I'm reserving judgment. The rest of the setup is conventional and it seems like a stiff price for a spring.

    A5 discussion: I've been using the A5 system since shortly after it came out, and use it alongside standard carbine setups (most with H or H2 buffers) and standard rifle setups. I also have an H6 buffer that I've done moderate testing with. On the A5 I've only used the A5H2 buffer that comes with the VLTOR kit, not the optional lighter and heavier buffers.

    1) Reliability: the A5 has worked OK with everything I've tried, but the A5H2 and the rifle setup don't tame highly overgassed uppers enough for my taste. It does work well with reasonably gassed (typical 16" midlength) and marginal (18" rifle) uppers, but those also work fine with carbine if you're willing to choose the right buffer. You could buy and use the other weight buffers but that adds considerably to the cost of the A5 system, and for someone who already has the full the range of carbine weight buffers it's just too much extra hassle.

    2) Recoil: in my use the perceived recoil of the A5 is sometimes better than carbine and sometimes not, but when I have video of my shooting the visible recoil is noticeably less compared to a carbine and H buffer.

    3) Value: if you're building a stripped lower, the extra cost of the A5 setup is only $10-20 more than a comparable quality carbine setup (true milspec buffer tube). I think it's a reasonable choice for a new build, depending on the uppers you plan to use. I wouldn't toss an existing carbine buffer system to install an A5.

    4) H6: this is supposed to be an alternative to the A5. I've only tested it to a moderate extent and it works fine in that limited testing. I can't comment on exactly how it compares to an A5.

    5) Severely overgassed uppers: H3 buffer and quality GI spring or H2 buffer and Springco Blue will tame most. You could try an H3 and Springco Red if the gassing is outrageous, but if it's that bad you should get an adjustable gas block, or just toss the barrel and start over.

  2. #22
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    I think plenty has been said comparing the A5 with the carbine buffer system. Geissele's main benefits should be increased spring force and life. Braided wire springs have been proven to last longer than their single stranded counterparts. They lose some return energy due to internal friction between strands. You would likely see a similar benefit as the Geissele from a Sprinco blue. The buffer masses and internal construction, and overall system length are unchanged.

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruin View Post
    I think plenty has been said comparing the A5 with the carbine buffer system. Geissele's main benefits should be increased spring force and life. Braided wire springs have been proven to last longer than their single stranded counterparts. They lose some return energy due to internal friction between strands. You would likely see a similar benefit as the Geissele from a Sprinco blue. The buffer masses and internal construction, and overall system length are unchanged.

    Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
    Sprinco blue is a lot stouter.

  4. #24
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    Hmmm, Brownells CS then. Is the Geissele spring 17-7 ph?

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruin View Post
    Hmmm, Brownells CS then. Is the Geissele spring 17-7 ph?

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    No, it is music wire.

  6. #26
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    The Geissele spring looks interesting although I'm not sure it will make a noticeable difference to the shooter in the same way that the A5 has. In addition to the felt recoil being more ''rifle like'' with the A5, it also reduces bolt bounce. For most shooters bolt bounce may not be a huge issue but it is a benefit that the A5 system offers.
    “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    No, it is music wire.
    Of springs and rust?

    Most say that testing of the A5 has shown a greater operational range over the carbine set-up due largely to the rifle spring rate and of coarse buffer weight selection. Also there is the spring in the back of the weight stack that gives consistency to unlock.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    As to the dynamics of the system, it is simply conjecture until proven otherwise, one way or the other, IMO.
    So help us out and provide some hard data. Get a timer and shoot splits A5 vs S42. Sprinco Green vs Vltor spring.

    In another hobby I have seen how some people can be very insensitive to small changes (or even big changes), but the data usually doesn't lie. Do something repeatable and measurable. I can only think of splits as a benchmark.

    Quote Originally Posted by WS6 View Post
    Another point is that neither the military and the commercial market have not embraced the Vltor system. All of the R&D is focused on the carbine RE, and the military concluded that the H6 buffer would be fine vs. the A5 RE.
    I suppose I disagree. Vltor A5 is doing well in the "high performance" side of the commercial market. Just because the USMC decided it was not worth it to upgrade a few hundred thousand M-16s doesn't mean anything to the consumer trying to eek out 1% or 5% performance increases.

  9. #29
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    "Do something repeatable and measurable. I can only think of splits as a benchmark"

    You got a reliable human being to do these splits? I don't think so. The only results you would get is a range of time it took your human to peddle a trigger. What does a split time have to do with this conservation? To me the A5 feels a little smoother but it's the kind of improvement you will forget you did after a couple of magazines. The A5 is a no brainer for a new build but I am not so sure I would replace the extension, spring and buffer of a rifle that was running good. Maybe I am not sensitive enough to appreciate the benefits.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
    "Do something repeatable and measurable. I can only think of splits as a benchmark"

    You got a reliable human being to do these splits? I don't think so. The only results you would get is a range of time it took your human to peddle a trigger. What does a split time have to do with this conservation? To me the A5 feels a little smoother but it's the kind of improvement you will forget you did after a couple of magazines. The A5 is a no brainer for a new build but I am not so sure I would replace the extension, spring and buffer of a rifle that was running good. Maybe I am not sensitive enough to appreciate the benefits.
    Exactly.. I am nowhere good enough to make splits worth beans. Taran wouldn't even be good enough.

    The Vltor a5 with the Vltor spring is gentler. I have to un the green spring to make my rifle reliable. Thus changes the feel of the a5 greatly, and the carbine setup is now similar to better. Thus is based off of me shooting it back to back in these configurations. It's the best I can offer.

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