Arnold: The Vegetarian ....

[WillBrink]

Has Arnold gone vegetarian? Sorta. Of course he built his body eating meat, as have some other well known bbers, such as Bill Pearl, who went vegetarian after their bbing careers. So, the very career and many millions Arnold made due to his body, now doing public service messages on meat. In my view, that's a tad hypocritical, but people's positions on things do change with age, and Arnold is no different. One could argue he could have built that body not eating meat, but that's a different issue for another day....(1)

Is that a bad thing? Not really. Most people should eat less meat and more plant based foods, which will be better for both health and the environment. Arnold is actually taking a fairly balanced approach to this issue, but no doubt, will be taken out of context by many.

Two, people should also remember, Arnold is a bber and action movie star and generally all around cool guy (met him several times), but he's no scientist. I don't know if this recent change of dietary focus on pro environment status will lead to Arnold becoming some militant vegan, but I doubt it.

Arnold is right: Most people should eat less meat and more plant based foods (ye fruits and vegetables...) for both health and environmental reasons, but there's no reason what so ever to be a vegetarian, much less a vegan, and It does not sound as if that's Arnold's message.



(1) My take on that issue can be found:

http://www.brinkzone.com/general-hea...tes-the-facts/

[Arik]

My take on this from yesterday.





There's my grains, plants, and meat!!!

In all seriousness I think my eating is fairly balanced. Each meal has meat, starch, and a salad of some sort. In the afternoon and evening I have some kind of a fruit....apple, grapefruit, blueberries. ..something


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[BuzzinSATX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHSkahIFDF4[/video]

I've been trying to get off meat, dairy, and eggs for a long time. But they are all so damned tasty, it's tough.

But I am in total agreement with the video. The commercial animal protein production system is pretty disgusting, and if you actually saw how the animals you eat lived, you'd probably lose your appetite. Commercial poultry, dairy, and fish farms are pretty disgusting. Beef and pork slaughter houses have animals living in a foot of their waste while they fatten them up using hormones and GMO grain. If you actually looked into it and understood what the reality is, it's freaking scary.

Of course, vegans are also kidding themselves. Tons of commercially processed "vegan" food is laced with chemicals, artificial ingredients, and GMO's...not any better, nutritionally.

We try keeping it "real" as much as possible. Whole, organic vegetables and fruits as much as possible. When we eat fish, it's wild caught. beef is grass raised and finished I buy from a small local butcher. I buy eggs from a local family who raises their own chickens on organic and natural feed. We've switched to mainly unsweetened, organic almond and coconut milk.

I believe this book is a very solid source of info: https://www.amazon.com/China-Study-C.../dp/1932100660

"In The China Study, Dr. T. Colin Campbell details the connection between nutrition and heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. The report also examines the source of nutritional confusion produced by powerful lobbies, government entities, and opportunistic scientists. The New York Times has recognized the study as the “Grand Prix of epidemiology” and the “most comprehensive large study ever undertaken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease.”

The China Study is not a diet book. Dr. Campbell cuts through the haze of misinformation and delivers an insightful message to anyone living with cancer, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and those concerned with the effects of aging."


The "China Study" was a research project on death rates from 12 types of cancers, ordered in the early 1970's by the Chinese Premier, who was dying of cancer. The study was massive. 650,000 workers collected data from 880 million citizens (96% of the population at the time). Demographic data collected included where the person lived, their diet, genetic background, and many other points of info. Results were vividly clear...industrialized areas where people had access to more animal based proteins had significantly higher rates of cancers and heart disease. Rural counties where diets were largely rice and vegetable based had much lower rates of these diseases. The numbers are absolutely amazing.

I know...we have a TON of studies that say meat and dairy are essential to a healthy body...but none are anywhere near as COMPREHENSIVE as the China Study. And have you ever wondered who funded those studies? Please don't tell me the Government or some college with grant money. Almost all were funded, either directly through grants, or indirectly through campaign contributions to a politician. Because the folks that head the FDA, USDA, BLM, US Forest Service, et al, all are political appointees who either came from (and are headed back to) the industry they are now charged to monitor, or from some big money political PAC with an agenda. None of them give two shits about the reality of the situation.

So as I am changing my diet and monitoring how I feel, combined with my own research on the subject of nutrition from a variety of sources, I'm in agreement with the video. Not saying I'm ever going to totally give up meat, but I know from experience I feel better, and how much better is in direct correlation to how much less meat/processed foods and how much more organic, whole, vegetables and fruits I eat.

[WillBrink]

I've been trying to get off meat, dairy, and eggs for a long time. But they are all so damned tasty, it's tough.

But I am in total agreement with the video. The commercial animal protein production system is pretty disgusting, and if you actually saw how the animals you eat lived, you'd probably lose your appetite. Commercial poultry, dairy, and fish farms are pretty disgusting. Beef and pork slaughter houses have animals living in a foot of their waste while they fatten them up using hormones and GMO grain. If you actually looked into it and understood what the reality is, it's freaking scary.

Of course, vegans are also kidding themselves. Tons of commercially processed "vegan" food is laced with chemicals, artificial ingredients, and GMO's...not any better, nutritionally.

We try keeping it "real" as much as possible. Whole, organic vegetables and fruits as much as possible. When we eat fish, it's wild caught. beef is grass raised and finished I buy from a small local butcher. I buy eggs from a local family who raises their own chickens on organic and natural feed. We've switched to mainly unsweetened, organic almond and coconut milk.

I believe this book is a very solid source of info:

"In The China Study, Dr. T. Colin Campbell details the connection between nutrition and heart disease, diabetes, and cancer. The report also examines the source of nutritional confusion produced by powerful lobbies, government entities, and opportunistic scientists. The New York Times has recognized the study as the “Grand Prix of epidemiology” and the “most comprehensive large study ever undertaken of the relationship between diet and the risk of developing disease.”

The China Study is not a diet book. Dr. Campbell cuts through the haze of misinformation and delivers an insightful message to anyone living with cancer, diabetes, heart disease, obesity, and those concerned with the effects of aging."


The "China Study" was a research project on death rates from 12 types of cancers, ordered in the early 1970's by the Chinese Premier, who was dying of cancer. The study was massive. 650,000 workers collected data from 880 million citizens (96% of the population at the time). Demographic data collected included where the person lived, their diet, genetic background, and many other points of info. Results were vividly clear...industrialized areas where people had access to more animal based proteins had significantly higher rates of cancers and heart disease. Rural counties where diets were largely rice and vegetable based had much lower rates of these diseases. The numbers are absolutely amazing.

I know...we have a TON of studies that say meat and dairy are essential to a healthy body...but none are anywhere near as COMPREHENSIVE as the China Study. And have you ever wondered who funded those studies? Please don't tell me the Government or some college with grant money. Almost all were funded, either directly through grants, or indirectly through campaign contributions to a politician. Because the folks that head the FDA, USDA, BLM, US Forest Service, et al, all are political appointees who either came from (and are headed back to) the industry they are now charged to monitor, or from some big money political PAC with an agenda. None of them give two shits about the reality of the situation.

So as I am changing my diet and monitoring how I feel, combined with my own research on the subject of nutrition from a variety of sources, I'm in agreement with the video. Not saying I'm ever going to totally give up meat, but I know from experience I feel better, and how much better is in direct correlation to how much less meat/processed foods and how much more organic, whole, vegetables and fruits I eat.

The China study is considered one of the biggest jokes and fails in the scientific community and not worth the paper it was printed on. It is not a reliable source on the topic at all. I am a scientist, this is my lane, and you have been fed a pile of vegan BS with that one. It's been covered many times and is considered old news and fully debunked nonsense. Start with:

https://www.google.com/#q=china+study+false

[BuzzinSATX]

The China study is considered one of the biggest jokes and fails in the scientific community and not worth the paper it was printed on. It is not a reliable source on the topic at all. I am a scientist, this is my lane, and you have been fed a pile of vegan BS with that one. It's been covered many times and is considered old news and fully debunked nonsense. Start with:

https://www.google.com/#q=china+study+false

LOL! Got it, you're a scientist, this is your lane, and you are the recognized M4C "fitness and nutrition Dude"...fine. Furthermore, I'm 100% sure you have many hundreds, if not thousands more hours training and research on this than I. And I am also 100% sure you believe in what you are saying. So DO NOT take this as a personal affront.

The China Syndrome author, Colin Campbell, grew up on a farm in the North Eastern US. He, like you, is a scientist. Here is info on him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Colin_Campbell


Campbell grew up on a dairy farm. He studied pre-veterinary medicine at Pennsylvania State University, where he obtained his B.S. in 1956, then attended veterinary school at the University of Georgia for a year.[3] He completed his M.S. in nutrition and biochemistry at Cornell in 1958, where he studied under Clive McCay (known for his research on nutrition and aging), and his Ph.D. in nutrition, biochemistry, and microbiology in 1961, also at Cornell.

So you cannot say Campbell is a fraud...he has recognized, solid credentials. and FYI, Campbell did NOT set out to make a case for veganism. He grew up on a family beef and dairy farm. He was actually working on a project to promote western animal proteins in Asia when he met and began working with Chinese research scientists and discovered the study. Are there flaws in the study? Heck if I know. I didn't personally crunch any numbers.

But let's just look at this from a practical perspective...and you said it yourself...most people eat too much meat. And the majority of the meat we as Americans consume is low quality trash.

But I'm not gonna tell you or anyone else what to eat...but I do ask you one thing...have you ever gone a week without animal protein, eating mostly whole foods? You should try it sometime. The first few days suck, but you feel awesome afterwards. Don't knock it until you try it...

[WillBrink]

LOL! Got it, you're a scientist, this is your lane, and you are the recognized M4C "fitness and nutrition Dude"...fine. Furthermore, I'm 100% sure you have many hundreds, if not thousands more hours training and research on this than I. And I am also 100% sure you believe in what you are saying.

Decades brother, decades. Two, I have no claims to "recognized M4C fitness and nutrition Dude." I have been published all over the planet for what I do. Bio/background easy enough to find sir. I try to help the members of M4C in the areas that are my lane, and will shut up and learn when out of my lane here.

So DO NOT take this as a personal affront.

The China Syndrome author, Colin Campbell, grew up on a farm in the North Eastern US. He, like you, is a scientist.

Campbell grew up on a dairy farm. He studied pre-veterinary medicine at Pennsylvania State University, where he obtained his B.S. in 1956, then attended veterinary school at the University of Georgia for a year.[3] He completed his M.S. in nutrition and biochemistry at Cornell in 1958, where he studied under Clive McCay (known for his research on nutrition and aging), and his Ph.D. in nutrition, biochemistry, and microbiology in 1961, also at Cornell.[/I]

So you cannot say Campbell is a fraud...he has recognized, solid credentials. and FYI, Campbell did NOT set out to make a case for veganism. He grew up on a family beef and dairy farm. He was actually working on a project to promote western animal proteins in Asia when he met and began working with Chinese research scientists and discovered the study. Are there flaws in the study? Heck if I know. I didn't personally crunch any numbers.

But let's just look at this from a practical perspective...and you said it yourself...most people eat too much meat. And the majority of the meat we as Americans consume is low quality trash.

But I'm not gonna tell you or anyone else what to eat...but I do ask you one thing...have you ever gone a week without animal protein, eating mostly whole foods? You should try it sometime. The first few days suck, but you feel awesome afterwards. Don't knock it until you try it...

I'm well aware of his background and read his work well before most were even aware it existed. I will not attempt to debate the topic with you. What I can tell you, is the China study (which is not a study BTW...) is considered pure junk science in the sci/med community by those who do this shit for a living, and actually know the science. To quote above "So DO NOT take this as a personal affront" but you don't know what you don't know in this arena, and hence, not equipped to debate the topic. If I had a question about the 1911, I'd ask a genuine SME such as LAV, and by golly, would take his opinion on it knowing that because I shoot 1911s and have done some research on them, I'm no SME on that topic. I am however an SME on this one...

No personal affront taken at all nor any intended. I just supply the intel, you can decide what to do with it.

[BuzzinSATX]

I'll check out the articles that refute Campbell's claim. I have an open mind...I'm not entirely bought into the idea that going 100% meatless is the ticket. I read one of the articles that said Campbell was selective what data he included during his rat/cancer experiments. But don't think he's the first (or last) scientist who may have fudged results to get to a conclusion. Big agriculture does it all the time...

http://www.takepart.com/article/2016...shredded-wheat

So we know what we know, until we find out it's not true...

But I do know personally that when I significantly reduce my animal protein intake, I sleep better, have less joint pain, and my blood pressure, cholesterol, and triglycerides drop dramatically.

Also stand by what I said, that most meat products today are not entirely healthy. Processed meat, low-grade commercially produced meat has issues. You ever been to a large scale meat plant, poultry farm, or commercial fish farm? I have. Not very appetizing.

Lots of politics and big money in food and drugs, which leads to political contributions, high dollar lobbying, and misinformation. Hard to tell what studies are valid.

So in the end, it's "caveat emptor" and my last post on this thread. Best wishes to all....


Take Care,

Buzz

[Double3]

Meat!

Had the smoker fired up yesterday and did a Pork loin.

Eat 1+ lbs of meat per day in one sitting since I IF.

Will let you know when I die.

[WillBrink]

I'll check out the articles that refute Campbell's claim. I have an open mind...I'm not entirely bought into the idea that going 100% meatless is the ticket. I read one of the articles that said Campbell was selective what data he included during his rat/cancer experiments. But don't think he's the first (or last) scientist who may have fudged results to get to a conclusion. Big agriculture does it all the time...

If he fudged results to get a conclusion than he's a POS and not a legit scientist. Full stop. You get caught doing that, your career as a scientists is over. Again, this not your lane I suspect and understanding basic issues such as study design, data interpretation, peer review process, correlation vs direct intervention designs, etc are minimum intel needed to discuss/debate the topic.

He's a paid animal rights guy for PITA who wrote a book based on junk science. That's it.

[wildcard600]

Arnold is right: Most people should eat less meat and more plant based foods (ye fruits and vegetables...) for both health and environmental reasons, but there's no reason what so ever to be a vegetarian, much less a vegan, and It does not sound as if that's Arnold's message.

And why is that ? Many people have ethical reasons for choosing vegetarian or vegan lifestyles which have nothing to do with nutrition or whatever other senseless "science" people with an agenda dream up.