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Thread: Beretta 1301 tactical question

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    I looked hard at the 1301. It's an otherwise great shotgun at a very cost-effective price point, but IMHO has a significant design flaw and I ultimately went with the Benelli M2 Tactical. The double-feed issue on the 1301 is more than just a training or technique issue because if it happens, the gun is out of action until the shooter employs the cumbersome and perishable technique of clearing this particular malfunction. I saw that malfunction happen to a very experienced 3-gun shooter. No thanks. I've been very pleased with the Benelli, although I did have to apply a couple of mods to optimize it for 3-gun, adding to its already-elevated price point. If it wasn't for the double-feed issue, I think the 1301 would be a no-brainer.


    The doodad from Tom Jones or Aridus Industries completely nullifies this flaw IMO. Unless someone intentionally grips the bolt release paddle, and pull it outward and pivot it back...

    Much harder to do than say... purposefully covering the ejection port of a carbine to induce a malfunction.
    Last edited by QuickStrike; 07-21-16 at 17:16.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuickStrike View Post
    The doodad from Tom Jones or Aridus Industries completely nullifies this flaw IMO. Unless someone intentionally grips the bolt release paddle, and pull it outward and pivot it back...

    Much harder to do than say... purposefully covering the ejection port of a carbine to induce a malfunction.
    I'm sure that's true. But if you do accidentally hit the bolt release paddle then you have a game-over double feed, right? Seems like an unusual approach to the design of a tactical shotgun.

    Are you saying that the design flaw is the paddle? Or is it the mechanism that that paddle initiates? Per Aridus Industries..."The YT-1301 is a latch and shroud to be used with the Beretta 1301 in order to address the potential of the catastrophic shell dump malfunction". Seems like Aridus Industries is a little alarmed too.



    .
    Last edited by Hmac; 07-21-16 at 17:44.

  3. #33
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    After I installed the low profile version of the shroud, I tested for the double feed problem by hitting it with a rubber mallet and my furious lil fists!

    Nothing happened.

    Like I said, it would be pretty difficult to induce this malfunction even with just the small shroud installed unless you:

    1. Pry the release paddle up from the front (muzzle end) and pivot it backwards, a little hard to do since the edges of the flat paddle are thin = hard to grip and under spring pressure


    2. Take a punch and hammer. Put the punch at the very back edge (towards the butt stock) and hammer it at an angle.

    The full shroud version prevents #2, but you should still be able to deliberately do #1 to empty your shotgun. Because this is a beretta feature to help you empty your shotgun.

    I bought the full shroud to try also, but decided it wasn't needed. I haven't tried the Aridus version yet, but I'm sure their doohickey works with the same principle.

    Preventing the user from easily causing the paddle to pivot back far enough to release two shells at a time.

    Now I haven't hit it with a sledgehammer or fall with my full body weight into the ground right on the paddle or anything, but I think that the chances of this double feed problem happening is pretty slim with these aftermarket fixes installed.

    I suppose if one could hit the polymer or aluminum shroud hard enough it could impart enough momentum to overcome the spring pressure and do the 2 shells thing.

    But since the paddle is so light (less momentum) and under pretty good spring tension, I would worry about the shrouds breaking or rest of the shotgun being damaged at that point...

    Honest to goodness. Before the fixes came about, I was thinking of epoxing (or JB weld) a little fence around the back part of the paddle, kinda like the one around an AR's mag release button.

    That thang would have been ugly!!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hmac View Post
    I'm sure that's true. But if you do accidentally hit the bolt release paddle then you have a game-over double feed, right? Seems like an unusual approach to the design of a tactical shotgun.

    Are you saying that the design flaw is the paddle? Or is it the mechanism that that paddle initiates? Per Aridus Industries..."The YT-1301 is a latch and shroud to be used with the Beretta 1301 in order to address the potential of the catastrophic shell dump malfunction". Seems like Aridus Industries is a little alarmed too.



    .
    The design flaw is the fact that the bolt release doesn't just release the bolt, but also actuates the shell stop. It's nice in theory to ease unloading of the tube, but it was definitely an oversight in light of the fact that it can lock up the gun.

    Ultimately, the gun is not going to be redesigned to address the issue, so using a shroud is the way to go. Considering this issue is really the only downside of the 1301, fixing it with a shroud is a solid solution.

    And yes, we (Aridus) have been alarmed by it, and jumped at the opportunity to make the best version of the shroud possible.
    Last edited by SpyderMan2k4; 07-21-16 at 19:35.
    Owner of Aridus Industries. Creator of the Q-DC, CROM, ASA, and other fun shotgun things.

  5. #35
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    Just an FYI, I got my Aridus shroud within 2 business days after placing my order. Pretty dang fast service.

    Hmac, if you ever wander down to Texas, please feel free to try my 1301 after it arrives next week. I would be genuinely interested in your feedback and thoughts.

    Thanks and stay safe.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeriousStudent View Post
    Just an FYI, I got my Aridus shroud within 2 business days after placing my order. Pretty dang fast service.

    Hmac, if you ever wander down to Texas, please feel free to try my 1301 after it arrives next week. I would be genuinely interested in your feedback and thoughts.

    Thanks and stay safe.
    As a firearms mfgr, I hold Beretta in very high esteem.

  7. #37
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    Yup, I have heard decent stuff about them as well. If there is something you want me to specifically test with the shroud or the shotgun, let me know and we'll make it happen. Feel free to shoot me some ideas via PM if you wish.

    I know you have had a lot of interactions with your local law enforcement tactical team, I'd be very interested in how they test and run their shotguns as well. This one is going to be a testbed gun for a while, like a 870 Police Magnum I have. I pretty much intend to see how well it will hold up.

    One of my favorite drills is the LAPD D Platoon (SWAT) shotgun qual. I'm going run it with the 1301 with an Aimpoint, my 870 Police Magnum with an Aimpoint, and my 870 SBS with an Aimpoint. When I get that done, I'll post some results.

  8. #38
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    SeriousStudent,

    If you don't mind can you post the LAPD D Platoon (SWAT) shotgun qual? I would like to see what it entails.

  9. #39
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    Here it is. One of the things i like about it is that I can do it on a 25-yard range, and only requires 13 rounds.

    Full disclosure: I was taught this by Wayne Dobbs and Darryl Bolke of HardWired Tactical Shooting. Darryl got it from Scotty Reitz and Larry Mudgett of LAPD SWAT.


    LAPD D Platoon Shotgun Qualification
    Ammo: Requires two slug rounds, eleven 00 Buck rounds (9-pellet loads).

    Scoring: Total possible points = 200. Divide the number of points by 2. Maximum possible score = 100 percent.

    1st Phase: Two slugs at 25 yards. Start from low ready, fire 1 shot at center of mass in 2.5 seconds. Repeat. Hits in the 9 or 10 ring = 10 points. Any other hit on target equals 5 points. 20 points are possible for this phase.

    2nd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 15 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Any hit in the 9 or 10 ring equals 2 points. Any other hit on target equals 1 point. Approximately 30 points on this stage. Fifteen yards is an estimate with Remington 870.

    3rd Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 10 yards. Fire 1 shot in 2 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. Approximately 33 points possible on this phase.

    4th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 7 yards. Fire 1 shot in 1.5 seconds. Repeat. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.

    5th Phase: Two 00 Buck rounds at 5 yards. Fire 2 rounds in 2 seconds. This totals 18 pellets. 36 points possible on this phase.

    6th Phase: Three 00 Buck rounds at 3 yards. Failure Drill. Start from an under arm assault position. Fire one pair center of mass, assume the shoulder-sighted stance and fire one head shot, in three seconds. Body shots scored as above, 36 points possible. Head shot is scored one point for each pellet which strikes the head. 45 possible points on this phase.

    Total points possible for the course is approximately 200 divided by 2 = score in percentile.

    Passing score = 90 percent, with all projectiles on the target.

    Be sure and notice that any pellet leaving the target counts as a miss, and therefore a DQ. Just like in the real world, you really want to know how your shotgun patterns. I use the Federal Flite-Control 00 and #4 buckshot rounds, and the Federal Tru-Ball Deep Penetrating slugs, or the Brenneke Home Defense slugs. All of those rounds seem pattern exceptionally well in all my shotguns, even the 12.5" 870 SBS.

    I'm really itching to try those Brenneke's in the 1301. The Aimpoint should make the 25-yard slug phase a gimme.

  10. #40
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    And while we're talking about doodads from Aridus - has anyone tried their removable carrier system? Looks pretty interesting. The generic version is supposed to fit the 1301 nicely!

    john
    jmoore (aka - geezer john)

    "The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." Thucydides

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