XS Big Dot Sights Installation

[Gunfixr]

If all one cares about is hitting the c zone at 25yds or less, then no, it does not matter. In this case, all that is needed to install any sights is a 3lb hammer and a dulled cold chisel.

I'd really like to know how anyone can guarantee that the only shots ever required will be in the c zone at 25yds or less. It's nice to know you will have that much control over your defense situation.

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[Cincinnatus15]

I'd really like to know how anyone can guarantee that the only shots ever required will be in the c zone at 25yds or less. It's nice to know you will have that much control over your defense situation.

Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk

This is why I switched. Also I heard/read various instructors (LAV included) who do NOT recommend them. I think Rob Pincus said on one of his videos that sights are supposed to increase accuracy, not speed, generally speaking. I could hit a man size silhouette at 50 yards with them most of the time. But the room for error was just too large. It's hard to have consistent sight alignment without some constraints on the rear sight. And IMO, this is irresponsible for a carry weapon. If I have to make a shot (at any distance) I have to consider my target, what's beyond it, and I damn sure don't want to risk shooting a good guy who's around my target because my sight alignment was off just a hair. I didn't totally hate them, in fact I really like the concept of them, but when it comes to all practical purposes and my desire to improve my accuracy (accuracy is king), they just didn't cut it for me. I could see myself putting them on a gun for my spouse in the future so she could have something to grab in case of an emergency and not require much thinking just point and press. This is assuming she doesn't of course that she won't carry in the house like me.

[Gunfixr]

And, that's pretty much my point. While I have yet gotten the opportunity to take a force on force class, the aars I have read from those who have, at contact to 7yds or so, mostly no one even uses sights, as you are close enough and speed is needed. So set your sights for the longer distances, where accuracy is more important.
Suppose you hear shooting at the mall, and you go looking for your wife, to get her and you out. Your plan is to hopefully just run away with her. When you round a corner, gun in hand, you see her, next to the shooter, and he grabs her.
You gonna walk away, or shoot him in the face?
Is c zone accurate enough to shoot him in the face, over her shoulder?

Maybe you could take that shot, maybe not. Why hamper yourself with your equipment? That's the one variable you can narrow down before the fight even starts.
Aim small, miss small.
The stress of do or die is going to rob you of a good portion of your skill anyways.

The big dots work for some, by all means, use them. A big sight you can see is better than a small one you cannot.

Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk

[tower59]

My understanding is both accuracy and time until you get rounds on target are both potentially important, depending on the scenario. A sight system that affords quick acquisition may be preferable under certain circumstances. In contrast, if you are trying to pull off a long range shot under stress, the accuracy component may be more critical. What is the more likely scenario in civilian shootings- a shot at close range or one at extreme distance? How long do most civilian gunfights last? How critical is speed in those incidents? Inside my home, it is hard to imagine a 25 yard shot that I'd need to make. A 3 or 5 yard shot is far more likely, where extreme precision is likely not necessary, but speed will be. I don't pretend to know the answer to every situation, and I hope I never have to pull the trigger for real use, but it seems generally unnecessary to have to shoot bullseyes when just hitting the chest is fine- just do it before the other guy pulls the trigger!

[Mysteryman]

If all one cares about is hitting the c zone at 25yds or less, then no, it does not matter. In this case, all that is needed to install any sights is a 3lb hammer and a dulled cold chisel.

I'd really like to know how anyone can guarantee that the only shots ever required will be in the c zone at 25yds or less. It's nice to know you will have that much control over your defense situation.

Sent from my SGP612 using Tapatalk

I never said anything about 25 yards being the max distance you will ever encounter. I insinuated that 25 yards is the generally accepted practical distance for employment of a handgun. Beyond that distance the average shooters skill set rapidly diminishes.

This is why I switched. Also I heard/read various instructors (LAV included) who do NOT recommend them. I think Rob Pincus said on one of his videos that sights are supposed to increase accuracy, not speed, generally speaking. I could hit a man size silhouette at 50 yards with them most of the time. But the room for error was just too large. It's hard to have consistent sight alignment without some constraints on the rear sight. And IMO, this is irresponsible for a carry weapon. If I have to make a shot (at any distance) I have to consider my target, what's beyond it, and I damn sure don't want to risk shooting a good guy who's around my target because my sight alignment was off just a hair. I didn't totally hate them, in fact I really like the concept of them, but when it comes to all practical purposes and my desire to improve my accuracy (accuracy is king), they just didn't cut it for me. I could see myself putting them on a gun for my spouse in the future so she could have something to grab in case of an emergency and not require much thinking just point and press. This is assuming she doesn't of course that she won't carry in the house like me.

XS sights are designed to excel in making accurate(combat effective) hits under very limited time frames. Effective hits under stress.

And, that's pretty much my point. While I have yet gotten the opportunity to take a force on force class, the aars I have read from those who have, at contact to 7yds or so, mostly no one even uses sights, as you are close enough and speed is needed. So set your sights for the longer distances, where accuracy is more important.
Suppose you hear shooting at the mall, and you go looking for your wife, to get her and you out. Your plan is to hopefully just run away with her. When you round a corner, gun in hand, you see her, next to the shooter, and he grabs her.
You gonna walk away, or shoot him in the face?
Is c zone accurate enough to shoot him in the face, over her shoulder?

Maybe you could take that shot, maybe not. Why hamper yourself with your equipment? That's the one variable you can narrow down before the fight even starts.
Aim small, miss small.
The stress of do or die is going to rob you of a good portion of your skill anyways.

The big dots work for some, by all means, use them. A big sight you can see is better than a small one you cannot.

Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk

Who says the situation won't require a rapid accurate shot inside seven yards? What's to say your hostage scenario doesn't occur at 3 yards? When time is the deciding factor at hand, the sights won't be. You said you haven't done any force on force, I have. What people think they know and what they think they will do under stress is absolutely NOT what you can and will do under stress. Namely making head shots or other Hollywood bravado BS under stress is statistically near impossible. Between the physiological and psychological changes that occur during a "fight or flight" situation you also have to factor in your ability to shoot. Without experiencing a similar(not the same) stress induced situation and seeing first hand what you will do and how well(more accurately how poor) your shooting really is, you can't definitively discount X or Y piece of gear as relevant. During some of my F on F scenarios I couldn't recall how many people were in the room or whether or not I had a clear background before firing.

As an example lets look at the controversial video of the Tactical Response instructor/photographer who was taking pics of the students as they fired at targets that flanked him. Many think this was stupid and dangerous and blah blah blah. The only concern with that situation was whether or not the instructor trusted the students and whether or not the students trusted themselves. If we superimpose that situation onto your hostage scenario above we are left with the following. Your wife/girlfriend/child who is the hostage has absolutely no say in what action you or the scumbag take. So that leaves you the shooter to decide if you have the ability to make such a shot and if you're willing to live with the consequences if you miss and shoot your loved one. Based on most peoples absolute freak out over the Tactical Response video I suspect nearly all of us would opt to not shoot.

If you're not willing to participate in a similar exercise with shooters you believe are competent enough to make the shot then you shouldn't be testing those waters for the first time in the real world. I have stood down range while trusted(read competent) shooting buddies engage targets and vice versa. Your confidence level drops significantly when you are faced with the very real possibility of shooting your friend(s). Inversely your attention to detail such as sight alignment and trigger control goes way up. That being said there is no time restraint or risk of the bad targets shooting me or my friend(s). So the exercise isn't a true representation of what could/would happen but it's as close as you can get without significantly more risk to all involved.

As an anecdotal and informative piece of information the British SAS only train with live ammo. They clear rooms with teammates inside playing hostages and it has been reported that members of the Royal family have acted as hostages during these training exercises. There's a reason such units are much calmer and cooler than the average joe. They do this stuff for a living, they train every day and in many cases they use live ammo always. Its called stress inoculation and it takes a lot of repetitions to become comfortable with a high stress situation. Equipment is way down the list on the relevance scale by comparison.

My understanding is both accuracy and time until you get rounds on target are both potentially important, depending on the scenario. A sight system that affords quick acquisition may be preferable under certain circumstances. In contrast, if you are trying to pull off a long range shot under stress, the accuracy component may be more critical. What is the more likely scenario in civilian shootings- a shot at close range or one at extreme distance? How long do most civilian gunfights last? How critical is speed in those incidents? Inside my home, it is hard to imagine a 25 yard shot that I'd need to make. A 3 or 5 yard shot is far more likely, where extreme precision is likely not necessary, but speed will be. I don't pretend to know the answer to every situation, and I hope I never have to pull the trigger for real use, but it seems generally unnecessary to have to shoot bullseyes when just hitting the chest is fine- just do it before the other guy pulls the trigger!

I'm not a MIL or LEO guy but the saying "the situation dictates the tactics" comes to mind. The bold are the points I am trying to portray.

MM