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Thread: Argument for pencil barrels?

  1. #1
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    Argument for pencil barrels?

    I've been pondering whether I should start using pencil barrels to lighten my builds from now on, and this is where I'm at right now. My question is, Do you think this is a sound argument, or am I missing something?

    Argument #1: Torture Tests. In all of the torture testing I've seen, the profile of the barrel doesn't seem to have much of an impact on its lifespan. I've never seen one meltdown even where the rifling didn't get destroyed long before the barrel actually burst. It seems, and I could be wrong here, that the profile of the barrel doesn't have much influence on the rifling. In other words, if you're firing fast, then the heat doesn't have time to sink into the meat of the barrel. Alternately, if you're firing slow, then a pencil barrel seems to dissipate heat at about the same rate as a reasonably heavier profile, like the SOCOM profile. So if you're firing at a slow, sustained rate, not exceeding the rate at which the heat is sinked from the rifling, then a SOCOM profile would only give you a brief window, due to its mass, at which it would outperform a pencil profile. Once the barrel is hot, then you're back to its ability to dissipate heat. If you're firing fast, faster than the heat can be sinked from the rifling, then you'll destroy your rifling long before the barrel fails; and a heavier barrel wouldn't have prevented it because you were exceeding the rate at which heat was being drawn from the rifling. In other words, the SOCOM barrel would only perform marginally better than the pencil profile during normal firing, and only for a brief time.

    Argument #2: Military Rifles. If you look at the majority of military rifles, they're using pencil barrels. Even the A2 profile is for all intents and purposes a pencil barrel because the mass is in the wrong freaking place to have any impact on anything. I have heard of instances where a rifle failed in combat due to heavy firing, but it was always something besides the barrel, like the gas tube.

    Argument #3: Accuracy. I've spoken to several manufacturers and an R&D guy, and they assure me that rigidity in terms of accuracy is a myth for free floating barrels. They've all told me that they've tested this, and for the first magazine a pencil barrel performs just as well as a bull barrel made from the same blanks. After the first magazine, the barrels start heating up to the point where expansion causes loss of accuracy. But here again, the difference in mass between pencil and SOCOM is only going to give you a brief window. So for most barrels, heat dissipation is more important than mass. The exception would be varmint barrels because of the slow rate of fire, plus the fact that you're shooting off a bench. The last I heard, ball mill dimpling yielded the greatest surface area, so it would make more sense to have a light ball mill dimpled barrel than a SOCOM barrel. The increased heat dissipation would help preserve the rifling during normal fire, and it would also preserve accuracy.

    The reason I ask is I'm seriously thinking about using a lightrigid barrel from battle arms development in a RECCE build. Is there anything I'm not taking into account here?

  2. #2
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    Good question, and I'm sure others have much more detailed and scientific I out than I. What I will say is that it all depends on what you are doing or planning to do with your rifle.
    Pencil barrels are the same profile from front to back (except for maybe the journal and of course near the chamber, barrel nut, etc). You can get the best of both worlds with a tapered barrel, thick in the back and light in the front.
    Again lightweight is offset by rigidity and how fast it beats up. For most people either one will do. If you are carrying it in the field and shooting offhand them lighter is obviously a lot easier, but if you are either shooting precision or may dumping against waves of zombies/FEA/BLM/gibs leeches, hen heavy profile might be good.
    Also, if you're hanging a can on the end, that might favour a heavy barrel.

    Regarding torture tests, I do remember seeing an Army test where a light profile M4 either ruptured the barrel or something like that. A heavier barrel should, all other things being equal, withstand more rounds before beating up to the same temperature, contain more pressure, droop less, etc.

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    BCM ELW profile is my preference.

    I never seemed to over heat my semi/burst M4, so for my semi only rifles ELW fit the bill perfectly.
    Tactical Nylon Micro Brewery

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    BCM ELW profile is my preference.

    I never seemed to over heat my semi/burst M4, so for my semi only rifles ELW fit the bill perfectly.
    +1 Great barrel!
    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
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    "Some of you would bitch if a hot blonde served you a perfect steak and beer of choice while naked and performed acts not described." Mark5pt56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benito View Post
    Good question, and I'm sure others have much more detailed and scientific I out than I. What I will say is that it all depends on what you are doing or planning to do with your rifle.
    Pencil barrels are the same profile from front to back (except for maybe the journal and of course near the chamber, barrel nut, etc). You can get the best of both worlds with a tapered barrel, thick in the back and light in the front.
    Again lightweight is offset by rigidity and how fast it beats up. For most people either one will do. If you are carrying it in the field and shooting offhand them lighter is obviously a lot easier, but if you are either shooting precision or may dumping against waves of zombies/FEA/BLM/gibs leeches, hen heavy profile might be good.
    Also, if you're hanging a can on the end, that might favour a heavy barrel.

    Regarding torture tests, I do remember seeing an Army test where a light profile M4 either ruptured the barrel or something like that. A heavier barrel should, all other things being equal, withstand more rounds before beating up to the same temperature, contain more pressure, droop less, etc.
    The M4 barrel will rupture, but it does so right behind the gas journal or the launcher cutout. That actually seems to be the weak point of most barrels. The chamber area sinks a lot of heat from higher up, so it's a natural weak point for most profiles. BUT, and this is a big but, the rifling will be utterly ruined long before any barrel ruptures. Yes, the gun is still semi-functional after that point, but only at close range. And, more importantly to my situation, it ruins the firearm. For my purposes, I'm worried about any damage to the rifling, especially since we're talking stainless. I was talking to an R&D guy, and he told me that 700 degrees is where you start to do permanent and immediate damage to the throat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnburglar View Post
    BCM ELW profile is my preference.

    I never seemed to over heat my semi/burst M4, so for my semi only rifles ELW fit the bill perfectly.
    Yes, finally a manufacturer with their head screwed on straight. I can't figure out why we see so many straight profiles. You just end up with a lot of useless material out front. It doesn't seem like a lot, but reducing just a few ounces at the muzzle can make a rifle seem a pound lighter offhand. It's amazing how fast those little ounces add up when they're out front like that.

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    I have been enjoying the Faxon gunner profile. Also, the Sionics continuous taper 11.5" is excellent as well. In both, weight is placed where it is needed, and not where it is NOT needed.
    "That thing looks about as enjoyable as a bowl of exploding dicks." - Magic_Salad0892

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    Quote Originally Posted by BufordTJustice View Post
    I have been enjoying the Faxon gunner profile. Also, the Sionics continuous taper 11.5" is excellent as well. In both, weight is placed where it is needed, and not where it is NOT needed.
    I just put a 16'' gunner barrel on my steel shooter, and it's fantastic. A little lighter than I would want for a working gun, though.

  9. #9
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    Comparison between a M4 and M4a1 carbine firing to failure. M4a1 is fitted with a heavier barrel.*

    Rounds fired: M4= 535, M4a1= 911



    Footage taken in 2012. More info at NYTimes:*http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...and-m4a1-guns/

  10. #10
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    I did a test a few months back, two different lightweight barrels, three ammo types, three 10-shot groups from each ammo.

    One of those barrels averaged with one load, right around 1.25moa groups. That was a Daniel Defense CHF barrel.

    My Larue Stealth was averaging about .95moa for 5-shots.

    Right after I did the test, I pulled the 3-9x leupold scope off the stealth, put it on the DD. I won't notice the 1/4" loss of accuracy but I will notice the lost weight.

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