AKOU Radical Firearms failure at 4310 rounds

[Kdubya]

Excellent posts.

Absolutely agree that both m4hk and grumpy provided an excellent and substantive perspective.

I don't have firsthand experience with RF, but you don't have to travel far to find that they're viewed fairly unfavorably. Is it warranted? Perhaps. But the extent of the level of criticism seems a bit over the top. I liked the comment about this test speaking to, "the maturity of the AR system." The truth is that AKOUs 5k tests subject these rifles to far more abuse than most will ever throw at their ARs. At the bare minimum, if someone is running their rifle through similar conditions, they are at least doing preventative inspections/maintenance.

Most here would likely put RF rifles at the bottom of their list. So the bottom of the barrel will withstand all this for 4k+ rounds and could be back up and running with a few bucks in replacement parts. This is also ignoring that it is a sample of one. It's possible there was a defect that is not present in the majority of their rifles. On the other hand, maybe this test rifle was an example of the best that RFs could produce. Neither conclusion can be accurately drawn from this one instance; it's simply a data point. What can be assumed, is that if they give it a good cleaning and spend a couple bucks replacing parts, it'll likely come right back to life. It's far from trashed.

Frankly, this test might work in RF's favor. I know that sounds odd. But if you ask around the forums about this brand, the general comments will make it seem like the rifle will crumble in your hands when you take it out of the safe. Yes, that's an exaggeration, but that sentiment is pretty much what you'd get.

Again, it's still a sample of one. So major conclusions cannot be made. If we go down that road, one could suggest the DDM4V11 performed worse. It wasn't as significant a failure with the trigger reset issue, but it failed at an earlier point and took it out of commission all the same. And by that same token then, the PSA Freedom AR is the current frontrunner. It made it through the 5k, and was the only one to run a full mag in their sand test. None of those conclusions would be fair or reasonable solely based upon one test. So, it's only fair to give RF a little benefit of the doubt that this could have been a defective fluke.

ETA: I saw that they did swap the BCG and finish things out without any further issues. Not only that, but the final attempt at shooting for groups suggests the barrel still has a lot left in it as far as accuraccy. I'm not sure why they didn't just replace some parts and try to run the RF BCG. Maybe I missed the part discussing why they didn't or couldn't try using the original?

Outside of the main test, it's an encouraging data point for nitrided barrels, and how they might hold up over time. That might be my biggest takeaway.

[PattonWasRight]

^^^ Great perspective to consider ... plus, you're a heck of a writer ... you're "easy to listen to!"

I agree ... tight MOA at 5k rounds under that kind of rapid firing is impressive.

In his follow up video, he kinda' customized it to his liking apparently, with new stock, optic, BCG and trigger. So, not really a valid finish to the test.

[Kdubya]

^^^ Great perspective to consider ... plus, you're a heck of a writer ... you're "easy to listen to!"

I agree ... tight MOA at 5k rounds under that kind of rapid firing is impressive.

In his follow up video, he kinda' customized it to his liking apparently, with new stock, optic, BCG and trigger. So, not really a valid finish to the test.

Thanks! I'm glad someone enjoys my loquacious musings

I suppose writing has always been a hobby of mine. I've actually been asked a number of times if I'd ever thought about doing it for a living. It's definitely a consideration. But, between firearms, politics, golf, and faith, I still have some decisions to make on the niche I'd pursue.

Being that this is a firearm forum, I'll get back on track. While I wish he would have tried to repair the original BCG, it's not my call. His channel, his ammo, his firearms, his time; his rules. I suppose I understand the route he chose after the failure. At its core, the premise of these tests is pretty simple. Abuse the rifle, and see if it can make it through 5,000 rounds. In spite of getting very close, the RF AR failed. As far as AKOU was concerned, that means the test was over.

The nitride epiphany I stumbled upon was a welcome consolation. I've been considering these treatments vs CL for a while now. I've yet to decide on a barrel for my upcoming build, mostly because I'm still on the fence about going with Nitride. Mr GnG is actually running a test to compare the two, and I'm anxiously awaiting the results. I'm hoping his findings solidify my ultimate decision, and this AKOU test turned out to be a nice precursor. The fact that a RF nitrided barrel held up this well is noteworthy. It definitely eased the little remaining apprehension I have about giving nitride a chance.

[elephantrider]

ETA: I saw that they did swap the BCG and finish things out without any further issues. Not only that, but the final attempt at shooting for groups suggests the barrel still has a lot left in it as far as accuraccy. I'm not sure why they didn't just replace some parts and try to run the RF BCG. Maybe I missed the part discussing why they didn't or couldn't try using the original?

Outside of the main test, it's an encouraging data point for nitrided barrels, and how they might hold up over time. That might be my biggest takeaway.

Good catch. After the 4k+ rds, it still managed a sub 1.5 MOA group with "ZQI" ammo. Now looks like ZQI only offers IMI m193, and MKE SS109 ammo types, not sure if that was the case when this test occurred. Pretty darned good group with either of those loadings. Would have been nice to see an accuracy benchmark from the test outset, but they either didn't do it, or just didn't put it in a video that I saw.

[Kdubya]

Good catch. After the 4k+ rds, it still managed a sub 1.5 MOA group with "ZQI" ammo. Now looks like ZQI only offers IMI m193, and MKE SS109 ammo types, not sure if that was the case when this test occurred. Pretty darned good group with either of those loadings. Would have been nice to see an accuracy benchmark from the test outset, but they either didn't do it, or just didn't put it in a video that I saw.

I agree. With mil-surp ammo those are some solid groups. Granted it was a small sample, but I'll take AKOU at their word when they say they show what they shoot. They don't selectively pick the best of a bunch of attempts. I think in the 1,000 round video he did perform an accuracy test, and had nearly the same sub 1.5 moa result.

[nolt]

What if someone shot a del-ton flawless to 5k rounds? edit: 8k?
Would yall run out and buy them?

(I'm not really asking for an answer here FWIW.)

[elephantrider]

What if someone shot a del-ton flawless to 5k rounds? edit: 8k?
Would yall run out and buy them?

(I'm not really asking for an answer here FWIW.)

Who is running out to buy a Radical Firearms b/c of this thread?

(I'm not really asking for an answer here FWIW.)

[nolt]

heehee

[wanderson]

I picked up an RF barreled 7.62x39 10" upper and an AIM Surplus BCG a year ago, zero failures out of the box and great accuracy. I was aware of their earlier issues with loose barrel extensions but was willing to take a chance for $210 shipped. I also have ARs from PSA, BCM and RRA in 5.56, .300blk, 7.62x39 and 9mms. Most are carbine and a few pistols.

Only one of my PSA rifles has a PSA BCG (their Premium), and it's not finished as nicely as an AIM or Toolcraft BCG for the same money. So if you're shopping for a budget upper like RF or PSA you might be happier going with a different BCG for long-term reliability.

AIM also has a back up bolt kit (bolt, cam & firing pin) for under $60.

[MikeF]

I wanted to ask since this thread ended in April of 2017 if there has been any perceived improvement in Radical Firearms, or not. I saw Primary Arms is selling the RF-15 for $524. Reading through this thread it would seem to me that the rifle that Robski was reviewing that failed just needed a new BCG, so if the BCG had been replaced with, say, a BCM BCG, would it have failed? Given the current situation, that price point of $524 seems pretty attractive, so I thought I would ask.