PCC: 9mm vs .40

**Junkie** · 08-09-16, 14:02

I know that at this point 9mm is the way to go for semiauto handguns, as effectiveness is nearly identical, there's less recoil, and there's more capacity.

I live in California, and we have even worse laws coming into effect at the start of next year so I'd like to buy a PCC before then. I'd like to buy a Sub2000 as something that's easily concealed but can reach farther than a handgun. They're difficult to find around here, new or used.

I have a Glock 22 and a bunch of magazines for it (bought it before 9 vs 40 was quite so clear). I came across a used Sub2000 for a reasonable price, in .40, using Glock magazines.

Thoughts on the caliber difference?

The other option is, if I can find one, a 9mm set up for Sig magazines (as I have a 9mm P226 and a bunch of magazines for it too). The problem is finding it, and it has to be before the end of the year. The Sub2000 needs to be modified to be California legal *before* being sent to an FFL, who will then charge a bunch for a transfer, so it isn't cheap or easy to buy a new one.

Or, if there's something else similarly compact that I should look into I'm all ears.

Thanks for any advice.

**john armond** · 08-09-16, 14:23

If you are really interested in a 9mm Sub2000, can you locate one that uses Beretta or 5906 mags? If I remember correctly you can swap the "grip" or mag release (don't recall which) on the Sub2000 9mm platform, with the exception of the Glock version, for any of the other three types of metal mags (5906, 92, Sig). I'm not sure if this is just on the original PCC or the newer one. I would call Kel-Tec to verify though.

**BuzzinSATX** · 08-09-16, 14:24

Originally Posted by Junkie

I know that at this point 9mm is the way to go for semiauto handguns, as effectiveness is nearly identical, there's less recoil, and there's more capacity.

I live in California, and we have even worse laws coming into effect at the start of next year so I'd like to buy a PCC before then. I'd like to buy a Sub2000 as something that's easily concealed but can reach farther than a handgun. They're difficult to find around here, new or used.

I have a Glock 22 and a bunch of magazines for it (bought it before 9 vs 40 was quite so clear). I came across a used Sub2000 for a reasonable price, in .40, using Glock magazines.

Thoughts on the caliber difference?

The other option is, if I can find one, a 9mm set up for Sig magazines (as I have a 9mm P226 and a bunch of magazines for it too). The problem is finding it, and it has to be before the end of the year. The Sub2000 needs to be modified to be California legal *before* being sent to an FFL, who will then charge a bunch for a transfer, so it isn't cheap or easy to buy a new one.

Or, if there's something else similarly compact that I should look into I'm all ears.

Thanks for any advice.

Since you are limited to 10 rounds regardless, that knocks out the 9MM capacity advantage. If you are shooting a shoulder mounted firearm, is it that bad regarding recoil (another 9MM advantage)?

Personally, I prefer my Glock 19 to my Glock 23, but I do like my Glock 23. If you like the G22, and the Sub2000 works for you, what's the issue? Added bonus for me would be availability of .40 rounds over 9MM during a possible ammo shortage...at least that was the case last time.

Just my $0.02 that you got for free. YMMV. Good luck

**Junkie** · 08-09-16, 14:35

Originally Posted by john armond

If you are really interested in a 9mm Sub2000, can you locate one that uses Beretta or 5906 mags? If I remember correctly you can swap the "grip" or mag release (don't recall which) on the Sub2000 9mm platform, with the exception of the Glock version, for any of the other three types of metal mags (5906, 92, Sig). I'm not sure if this is just on the original PCC or the newer one. I would call Kel-Tec to verify though.

I'm having trouble finding any, period... and the one I found that I got a reply about is in 40, and uses the only 40 magazine that I use.

And yes, I'm aware that they can be converted (other than Glock) - I even emailed them asking how much (the parts listed on the site are for Gen2) and they offered to send it to me free. They have great customer service, a friend shot out the barrel on his SU16 (LOTS of steel case stuff, eventually started keyholing) that he'd bought 3rd or 4th hand, and they charged him $40 to transfer the warranty and then exchanged his rifle for a brand new one with the same serial number, so if it can be done I imagine they'll make it right.

Originally Posted by BuzzinSATX

Since you are limited to 10 rounds regardless, that knocks out the 9MM capacity advantage. If you are shooting a shoulder mounted firearm, is it that bad regarding recoil (another 9MM advantage)?

Personally, I prefer my Glock 19 to my Glock 23, but I do like my Glock 23. If you like the G22, and the Sub2000 works for you, what's the issue? Added bonus for me would be availability of .40 rounds over 9MM during a possible ammo shortage...at least that was the case last time.

Just my $0.02 that you got for free. YMMV. Good luck

I'm hoping to move somewhere else so larger magazines may be an advantage eventually, but who knows if that'll happen.

I'd expect recoil to be negligible, but I don't think I've ever shot a semiauto PCC so I can't say for sure.

I'm happy with my Glock 22 (other than the fact that the night sights are barely visible even in a fully dark room, I think it was made in 1990), although I've considered converting it to 9mm. If I could find a 9mm Glock Sub2000 I'd be happy with that too, and I'd convert the Glock as well.

I doubt there'd be any real issue with .40, I just have no experience so I figured I'd ask.

**Lefty223** · 08-09-16, 17:35

Originally Posted by Junkie

I'm having trouble finding any, period... and the one I found that I got a reply about is in 40, and uses the only 40 magazine that I use.

I'd expect recoil to be negligible, but I don't think I've ever shot a semiauto PCC so I can't say for sure.

I doubt there'd be any real issue with .40, I just have no experience so I figured I'd ask.

Well, I was where you are, at least w/ the Sub2000 and that I hail from another sadly leaning LEFTist State, but on the other coast from you.

I too wanted a Sub2000 in 9mm Sig, as that mag well accepts CZ75 high cap mags that I already legally possess. It took me Dealer over 2-years to get me my Kel-Tec and it came in as 40 S&W in Beretta 96 mags. Not what I wanted, but my Dealer expressed it best when he said, "If you don't want it, there are already 20 others that do" ... and then added the kicker of ... "Much better to have a Kel-Tec Sub2000 in your hands - regardless of the caliber or mag - than to wish you had one ..."

So of course I bought it and for less than they're selling on G-Broker anyway. And I told him that I'm still 1st in line for the Sig model in 9mm, LOL!

Regarding the 40 S&W - I've never been a fan, but it is slowly growing on me. I picked up some Gold Dot 165 HPs that have a really good reputation. So less 'mag capacity' (limited to 10-rnds) then I sure won't feel undergunned. As is, high cap mags for B96 were only 11-rnds in the 40-cal, but I couldn't use them anyway (my state anyway).

Regarding the recoil - I personally wouldn't call it 'negligible', but it sure as heck is very managaeable. The other day at 25-yds offhand I couldn't 'see my shot', as that 4-lb gun does move, but I was easily printing 3-shots groups the size of a baseball, w/ new to me arm and a wonky trigger. Picture attached of but my 1st attempt at a group, before I adjusted the front sight.

I find the Sub2000 to be light, extremely handy, sort of funky & ungainly ... like your 1st time with a really tall & really skinny chick ... in that you're not too sure how to hold her correctly! But it went BANG everytime, no hangups or failures to feed and most importantly - put them where aimed, at least once when the sights were adjusted.

Funky? Yes ...
Weird? That too ...
Compact? Damn straight!
Wonky DREADFUL trigger? Ah yes, sadly yes ...

But I hope it will wear in some, but as said, or maybe I didn't say it ... but I sure didn't buy it for the trigger anyway!

**Junkie** · 08-09-16, 18:17

Can I generally use my CZ75 mags in my Sig as well? I'd never thought to try...

I've read of people swapping barrels too, not sure how involved it is.

**Lefty223** · 08-09-16, 18:29

Originally Posted by Junkie

Can I generally use my CZ75 mags in my Sig as well? I'd never thought to try...

I've read of people swapping barrels too, not sure how involved it is.

It has been reported on various forums that the magwell fits the Sig, Beretta and S&W mags and that the difference is in the "height" of the mag lock recess. And yes, Kel-Tec will send you the one you need. So you can use your CZ75 9mm high cap mags in a 9mm Sig Kel-Tec ... though I personally have not done so myself ... just in case what I've read (in many places) is actually incorrect.

I have also been told that the Beretta 40 and 9mm mag as the same base mag, with differences in the feed lips. Allegedly one can convert a high cap 40S&W to hold 9mm, but again I have not tried it. No idea if this follows with CZ or Smith. Somewhere on-line I also read an email allegedly from someone at Beretta, or who had worked for them, confirming the base (nominal) dimensions of the feed lips.

Note that the Glock frame/magwell is its own design.