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Thread: 3 Gun Rifle Set up and Suggestions

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougar_guy04 View Post
    If agreed about F2S's comment on the rifle. I run an Aimpoint T1 on the gun I use in competition because it's the only rifle in my stable with an optic right now and I've run that setup (CHF middy with a FSB, ACT trigger, and T1) for 6 years at this point and that gun has never been a shortfall for me. Most of the matches I shoot go out to 200-300 (usually mini-poppers at 200, 10" plates or larger at 300). Funniest one I was at was a guy on my squad that couldn't hit a 10" plate at 300 with a bipod and Nightforce 2.5-10 while I cleaned that stage because I know my rifle like the back of my hand.

    What has been a shortfall has been my shotgun reloading and general fitness/athletic ability. Stages I get killed on almost involve speed of movement and shotgun reloads. If I were going to get back into 3-gun heavily, fitness and shotgun reloads would get most of my attention followed by pistol shooting then rifle shooting and finally new gear.
    Shotgun reloads are a pain for just about everyone, my 930 JM is stock and hasn't had any loading port or lifter work done yet and it's impossible to keep up with the guys who have there ports opened and their lifters welded.

  2. #12
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    1st of all you NEED a good zero on a reliable rifle and that's about it.

    You certainly don't need a muzzle break for 3 Gun. Bennie Cooley won a Nationals without one. Do they help, sure a little bit but don't feel you need to have one.

    A match grade trigger, good sights and a free float handguard are probably the most useful accessories (in that order). But watching newer shooters at the 2/3 gun or rifle matches, none of those will help because their rifles aren't really zeroed and they never really learned to build accurate shots. The typical AR15 class doesn't prepare shooters for more technical shots at 2, 3, 400 yards on 4-5 MOA targets.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelly neal View Post
    1st of all you NEED a good zero on a reliable rifle and that's about it.

    You certainly don't need a muzzle break for 3 Gun. Bennie Cooley won a Nationals without one. Do they help, sure a little bit but don't feel you need to have one.

    A match grade trigger, good sights and a free float handguard are probably the most useful accessories (in that order). But watching newer shooters at the 2/3 gun or rifle matches, none of those will help because their rifles aren't really zeroed and they never really learned to build accurate shots. The typical AR15 class doesn't prepare shooters for more technical shots at 2, 3, 400 yards on 4-5 MOA targets.
    I didn't see that match but Bennie Cooley has a signature brake with JP enterprises so I feel like he probably ran with one. I agree that a good zero matters, one of my buddies was shooting horribly at a 75 yd target and after the stage I asked what his zero was and he was using 25yd. A lot of military guys come in with 25 yd zeros and do horribly because you're about 6" high at 100 yds with that zero. I use 50 unless I'm using my VCOG then I use 100 for the BDC. Trigger big difference, glass big difference, but I still feel a brake makes a difference when you have a rifle plate rack and you need to get onto the next plate.

  4. #14
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    You didn't see it because it was over 10 years ago but I did. And yes Bennie had JP comp named after him and he shot plenty of events with JP Tactical comps. My point is that people shouldn't feel that they need a comp before going to shoot a 2/3 gun match, it is a valuable accessory but not required and way less important than sights and trigger. Have I ever shot a major 3 gun match without a comp? Not since SOF. But for local matches, sure! Your statement that a shooter NEEDS a comp is simply not correct. At some matches, comps may be a disadvantage when shooting under cars or sideways thru the low ports of a VTAC style barricades but to be fair those matches are few and far between.

    As far as zeroes go, understanding the zero is as important as having a good zeroes. Nothing wrong with the 25/300 zero (especially for iron sights) if one understands it and really checks the zero at 300 which few do. Zeroing at 25 and calling it good is a risky proposition.

    I would also note that few to none of the best 3 gunners use a vertical fore grip. They slow down interactions with props, hang up on stuff and don't aid in offhand shooting. Now on a Tactical rifle I get it (although Kyle Lamb had to work hard to convince me) but not so much on a match gun.

    The modern trend is towards shorter barrels and lighter weight with 3 Gun Nation type events but old school 3 gunners will even run (gasp) 20 inch barrels. My favorite setup for Tac Scope is the 18 in light to medium weight barrel with a comp, aluminum BCG, extended hand guard, 1-6/8X optic, VTAC sling (if required) with a good trigger but I ran a 16 at SMM3G and will be running a 16 at Resurgence (mostly to make the weight requirement specific to that match). But my point is that the standard "tactical" rifle is more than adequate for most 3 gun and people shouldn't feel undergunned with what they have. Just make sure that it is zeroed and you understand your zero.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelly neal View Post
    1st of all you NEED a good zero on a reliable rifle and that's about it.

    You certainly don't need a muzzle break for 3 Gun. Bennie Cooley won a Nationals without one. Do they help, sure a little bit but don't feel you need to have one.

    A match grade trigger, good sights and a free float handguard are probably the most useful accessories (in that order). But watching newer shooters at the 2/3 gun or rifle matches, none of those will help because their rifles aren't really zeroed and they never really learned to build accurate shots. The typical AR15 class doesn't prepare shooters for more technical shots at 2, 3, 400 yards on 4-5 MOA targets.
    I'd agree 100%. Match grade barrel and comps are luxury items.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Given that he quoted me, I'm pretty sure he was asking what Bushy model I was talking about.
    Correct.
    Train 2 Win

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelly neal View Post
    As far as zeroes go, understanding the zero is as important as having a good zeroes. Nothing wrong with the 25/300 zero (especially for iron sights) if one understands it and really checks the zero at 300 which few do. Zeroing at 25 and calling it good is a risky proposition.

    I would also note that few to none of the best 3 gunners use a vertical fore grip. They slow down interactions with props, hang up on stuff and don't aid in offhand shooting. Now on a Tactical rifle I get it (although Kyle Lamb had to work hard to convince me) but not so much on a match gun.

    The modern trend is towards shorter barrels and lighter weight with 3 Gun Nation type events but old school 3 gunners will even run (gasp) 20 inch barrels. My favorite setup for Tac Scope is the 18 in light to medium weight barrel with a comp, aluminum BCG, extended hand guard, 1-6/8X optic, VTAC sling (if required) with a good trigger but I ran a 16 at SMM3G and will be running a 16 at Resurgence (mostly to make the weight requirement specific to that match). But my point is that the standard "tactical" rifle is more than adequate for most 3 gun and people shouldn't feel undergunned with what they have. Just make sure that it is zeroed and you understand your zero.


    I don't share Kelly's credentials but I agree 100% with this. I shot my first event with a vertical grip and it wound up being a hindrance.


    A standard AR with a rock solid zero that the shooter understands will always outperform the latest whiz-bang gear wielded by a shooter who isn't really prepared.

    Eventually as a shooter improves they may find themselves bumping up against a performance barrier that can be improved by match specific gear. Trigger and optics are the biggest improvements. Comps, low mass components and adjustable gas blocks do make a difference, but at that point you are splitting a pretty fine hair.

    I favor natural terrain matches with big field courses, and I am still shooting a medium heavy-ish 18" barrel.




    You wouldn't believe how many people subscribe to the 50/200 yard zero concept (which is valid), but they only zero at 50 and never bother to fine tune at 200. It is absolutely essential to confirm at longer range. In fact, I much prefer to zero using my 300 yard stadia at 300 yards, or 400 @400 yards, compared to zeroing at 200. Even with the truing feature in Strelok, or with good chrono data. I find that I have much better results this way. Any discrepancy at 100 or 200 yards is moot because of the typical target size in most practical events. We aren't trying to shoot a golf ball at 100 yards.


    If you ever get a good windless day to check your zero, try to run it out to around 500 yards. If you are hitting between 60-70% of the time from a field position, that is pretty solid. Shooting in the wind is great, but it is not the time to set your optic.
    Last edited by IndianaBoy; 09-12-16 at 16:17.

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