X-95 still having accuracy issues?

[tvfreakarms]

I love the TAVOR, but I sold mine when I came to realize I can not afford to have novelty rifles that lack even the most basic parts and supplies support. But it's a great rifle. The M4 rifle is my go-to weapon and parts for it are in great abundance, I just don't have the worries. The fact that IWI won't even sell spare bolt for it should be a red flag. The only response for the TAVOR fan base is, "We don't need them, they won't wear out or break."

Um...ok.

Hmmmm... That sucks. I see they sell it with the barrel.

Well at least they sell the spare bolt parts kit. Those would wear out before the bolt would.
Plus if the bolt did go to shit, I'm sure they would sell the bolt be itself. Well one would hope so.
But I get what your saying. Maybe if enough people complained about it.

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[tvfreakarms]

Nice showing.

I have a Tavor and what tests on that rifle and the X95 can't convey is how dang welded to the rifle you feel.

If you're the support for the rifle, sure, my AR is more accurate, but standing etc I can shoot the Tavor more accurately than my ARs because of how many contact points the Tavor offers.

Good point.


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[PattonWasRight]

I love the TAVOR, but I sold mine when I came to realize I can not afford to have novelty rifles that lack even the most basic parts and supplies support. But it's a great rifle. The M4 rifle is my go-to weapon and parts for it are in great abundance, I just don't have the worries. The fact that IWI won't even sell spare bolt for it should be a red flag. The only response for the TAVOR fan base is, "We don't need them, they won't wear out or break."

Um...ok.

Valid concern. They do have a spare parts kit for the bolt, plus springs etc, but the bolt isn't included. IWI says they match the bolt to the barrel, which looking on their website is supported, as that's how the sell them ... bolt & barrel together for $450, at MSRP. They do have sales now & then, but yeah, not exactly a joy price wise, but at least an option. All other parts are available on IWI's store website. Anytime you would install a new bolt it's always good to check headspace anyways.

[gunf1ghter]

Looking to order a new X95 and wanted to see how the recent ones are doing and if they have done anything about the accuracy issue many have talked about in the past. Thanks

So, here's the deal. There really has never been an "accuracy issue" with this rifle. I think the main problem is that when people look at dropping $1500-$1800 on an X95 and they think of the fact that it might be a 3-4 MOA rifle they start to get acid reflux or heart palpitations.

For the cost of the X95 you can buy a very high end M4 clone that will probably turn out 1-2 MOA accuracy. Why stop there though? You can also buy a precision rifle that is guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA (with the "right" ammo of course) for the same coin.

What exactly are you buying this rifle for if you want a bench gun that shoots 1 MOA?

From casual bench shooting, my newer build X95 turns out 2-3 MOA with IMI M193 ammunition. It's good enough for me. Am I trying to win a shooting competition or do I want a compact bull-pup rifle that gets full velocity out of milsurp ammo and can put lead on man sized silhouettes at 200-300 yards? The X95 can do that, easily.

This rifle has some major advantages and disadvantages, as follows;

Advantages;

1. Incredibly compact. I pinned a Griffin brake to mine and put the slim butt pad on it. It's now smaller than my 9" 300BLK SBR with the stock in the normal position I shoot with... and even better, it's legal in most free states with no ATF paperwork if I want to take it on a road trip.
2. Weight is rear-ward. Easier to operate one handed and if employing six points of contact technique it is a more stable shooting platform while mobile than the M4.
3. Piston driven system appears to be quite robust.
4. Integrated backup iron sights are pretty nice especially with the tritium insert on the front.
5. Full cartridge performance out of 16" barrel compared to my 11.5" SBR(s).

Disadvantages;
1. Heavy. Really heavy. My X95, unloaded weighs within one ounce of my 9" 300 Blackout BCM rifle, with optic, light and full magazine.
2. Parts availability. No matter how reliable it is, shit is eventually going to break, and you can't just go to your local store and buy new ones for it. Parts are also really expensive. $450 for a barrel and bolt? Really good BCM barrel, and full BCG is less $$ and fits every AR pattern rifle I own.
3. For me personally, I can manipulate the controls and do reloads much faster on M4/AK rifles than on the X95. This is a training issue though. With enough training it's possible to get fast enough with it that it won't matter.
4. weak side shooting or bump shooting takes a little more thought if you don't want to get hot brass on your face or beard.
5. It is slightly less accurate than a free floated M4 in a bench/prone scenario. Accuracy is about on par with my Arsenal SLR104/SLR107s.
6. Forward sling mount interferes with my ability to easily use a pic mounted weapon light. Will probably look into a thorntail mount.
7. Take down & complete cleaning is a bit more work. Then again you don't have to take it down too often.

All in all it's an excellent weapon system if you can pay the price without having your guts in a knot about it. I wouldn't own it if I didn't want a "street legal" 5.56 cartridge SBR sized rifle that I could take with me without the legal hassle of taking one of my actual SBRs out and about.

[Aries144]

The simple matter is, IWI either doesn't know how to make better mass production barrels or doesn't care.

Barrel makers in the US have learned how to make cheap mass produced barrels that consistently shoot about 2 MOA.

From a civilian perspective, I think people making derpy statements about the group size of holes in people's chests don't get it. For infantry combat, I can imagine why individual accuracy would be much less important, but that's not my area.

[Todd.K]

The simple matter is, IWI either doesn't know how to make better mass production barrels or doesn't care.

Did you consider the design of the rifle as a possibility? Most bullpups put a lot of stress on the barrel as a kind of spine.

[WickedWillis]

Did you consider the design of the rifle as a possibility? Most bullpups put a lot of stress on the barrel as a kind of spine.

Now that the Desert Tech MDR is out, hopefully we can see if it's really a 1-MOA gun at 100 bullpup like has been claimed, and see if it really is the bullpup design holding the accuracy back.

[Aries144]

Did you consider the design of the rifle as a possibility? Most bullpups put a lot of stress on the barrel as a kind of spine.

I'm open to evidence that this could be the case, but until then I'm going to stick with my current understanding, which is that 99% of precision is determined by barrel attributes such as lands-to-grooves concentricity, bore consistency, crown, and proper stress relief + ammunition consistency and optimum barrel time.

My current understanding is that barrel harmonic theories having to do with "barrel whip" are closer to old gunshop stories about "knockdown power" than science.

[Aries144]

Now that the Desert Tech MDR is out, hopefully we can see if it's really a 1-MOA gun at 100 bullpup like has been claimed, and see if it really is the bullpup design holding the accuracy back.

The first halfway decent accuracy report I've seen was from someone going by coldboremirakle on youtube. 6 5-shot groups, of which the largest group measured 1.36" at 100 yards.

[gunf1ghter]

The simple matter is, IWI either doesn't know how to make better mass production barrels or doesn't care.

Barrel makers in the US have learned how to make cheap mass produced barrels that consistently shoot about 2 MOA.

From a civilian perspective, I think people making derpy statements about the group size of holes in people's chests don't get it. For infantry combat, I can imagine why individual accuracy would be much less important, but that's not my area.

I think you hit it on the head. They don't care that someone who sits at a bench and gets bragging rights about getting 1" groups with match ammo can't do it with their weapon. What they care about is meeting the operational parameters for an ultra compact bull pup with a reliable piston system that can tolerate the insane beating these weapons take in the Israeli sandbox and is still plenty accurate enough for engaging the enemy at normal ranges of a couple hundred yards, or, usually, much much less.

The simple matter is, you want/value the advantages that the compact bullpup design offers, or you don't. Clearly you don't. Arguing that a piston driven bull-pup with a non free-floated barrel should have exactly the same accuracy as a DI free floated gun just indicates to me that you really don't quite "get it" when it comes to this kind of weapon. You don't get it because you insist that the accuracy delta proves they can't make a barrel without acknowledging AT ALL that there are inherent differences that affect accuracy which have nothing to do with the barrel.

The IDF did not design this gun to win competitions getting 1" groups at 100". The weapon was clearly designed for CQB where the weapon would probably be used to engage man sized targets at ranges out to, at most 200 or so meters.

X95 is much more compact than my 11.5" SBR even if it's a heavy mofo. Bonus points that, with pinned muzzle brake and slim butt pad it's still legal in all the states I might want to take it to and does not require that I get special permission of the ATF to take it.

I guess what I don't get is why you seem to argue that because it's an expensive piece of equipment it needs to have the same accuracy as a weapon with a different objective (medium ranged engagements).

I sight weapons in and then I go and train with them. I don't walk over after doing shooting/moving drills with a ruler and figure out if my target groups while on the move are 2", 3" or 6" as long as they grouped on the target at the distances I am training at.

In rare circumstances I might press an M4 type weapon into service with a high powered objective as a rifle I would use at 400-600 yards... and perhaps, in that rare circumstance I might care if that gun was shooting those groups at 8" instead of 15".... but that's still not the right use case for that rifle.

I have other weapons I would pick first if I was shooting targets at those distances.