I've been training for a while, now I am ready to get good. Help.

[diving dave]

If he was still with us, Louie Awerbuck....Old school but one of the best.

[26 Inf]

I've heard comments like that during Firearm Instructor meetings and it gets my goat. If you don't have good basic firearm skills, it's difficult to learn to fight with the firearm.

Yes, most often as an excuse for using the FBI 'Q' - every shooter gets a ribbon. Plus you don't have those pesky remedial shooters that you have to work with.

Many of those guys look at the stats that most police gunfights take place within five feet and think fast spray and pray is good enough.

[Treehopr]

Thanks everyone for the input. Here are some answers to the questions posted above.

I want to learn to shoot a pistol and carbine fast and accurately so that base is as solid as possible for learning to fight with the gun. I have done private courses as LEO in room clearing, vehicle down drills, force on force as well. What I want to focus on is getting hits as fast and as accurately as possible so that when I focus on the fighting portion/tactics etc that the fundamentals are rock solid

In regards to my taking 17 courses an not knowing the basics I never said I don't know how to press a trigger or stance. What I am looking for is the small things that I can do to fine tune to get better. I can already shoot A zone hits from the holster without flinching. I work my pistol with the RMR on it out to 150 yards regularly on IPSC targets etc. I dry fire as well. I try to do 30 minutes of that 3x a week.

What I am looking for is similar to what Ron Avery did for Travis Haley (of course I am no where near Travis in ability). Travis was an incredible shooter before working with Ron and Ron helped him fine tune to get even better. What Travis had was an instructor who was very good at finding the small things to address that resulted in incremental improvements.

My dry fire practice doesn't have a lot of structure. I would love to know of a program that outlines a series of drills to do to develop a well rounded shooter. I would especially love something like this for carbine work.

Since you're in Idaho, look up Bennie Cooley if you haven't already trained with him, one of the best carbine instructors in the country.

If you're trying to go from 65-120 mph for pistol, train with Matt Burkett- I learned more about pistol shooting in 4 hours with him than I did in most 2 or 3 day pistol classes with other instructors.

[Norman]

In regards to my taking 17 courses an not knowing the basics I never said I don't know how to press a trigger or stance. What I am looking for is the small things that I can do to fine tune to get better. I can already shoot A zone hits from the holster without flinching. I work my pistol with the RMR on it out to 150 yards regularly on IPSC targets etc. I dry fire as well. I try to do 30 minutes of that 3x a week.

What I am looking for is similar to what Ron Avery did for Travis Haley (of course I am no where near Travis in ability). Travis was an incredible shooter before working with Ron and Ron helped him fine tune to get even better. What Travis had was an instructor who was very good at finding the small things to address that resulted in incremental improvements.

OK, that clarifies things. I apologize if my post came off as rude. I would look for an instructor with a solid background in competition. As someone else mentioned, the spec ops guys seek them out because they tend to put more emphasis on the small details.
Someone mentioned Bennie Cooley, I didn’t know he was still teaching. If so, he’d be a great choice.

[Failure2Stop]

OK, that clarifies things. I apologize if my post came off as rude. I would look for an instructor with a solid background in competition. As someone else mentioned, the spec ops guys seek them out because they tend to put more emphasis on the small details.
Someone mentioned Bennie Cooley, I didn’t know he was still teaching. If so, he’d be a great choice.

Bennie Cooley and Jerry Barnhart are solid northern guys, if you can catch them.

[BuzzinSATX]

I cannot speak from direct experience, but a couple guys I used to shoot IDPA matches with spoke highly about Rogers Shooting School https://www.rogersshootingschool.com/. They had been to some of the same Gunsite classes I'd taken (250 and 350) and they said Rogers was way more focused on speed and accuracy...almost to the point that it wasn't fun. But they really felt it had taken their shooting abilities to another level.

Might be worth looking into...

[26 Inf]

I cannot speak from direct experience, but a couple guys I used to shoot IDPA matches with spoke highly about Rogers Shooting School https://www.rogersshootingschool.com/. They had been to some of the same Gunsite classes I'd taken (250 and 350) and they said Rogers was way more focused on speed and accuracy...almost to the point that it wasn't fun. But they really felt it had taken their shooting abilities to another level.

Might be worth looking into...

I'd recommend attending Rogers Shooting School. I attended the Intermediate-Advanced with the Carbine Option. Mentally, at least for me anyways, it was actually too much shooting each day. If I had to do it again I would have taken his Basic Handgun first, then the Intermediate-Advanced. As it was I spent the first couple days absolutely sucking before finally hitting my stumbling stride. The first three days were not particularly enjoyable because I don't like being back of the bus and I definitely was with the group of sectional champions I was shooting with.

Don't let your ego make your experience lacking in any way, if you are not a good solid shooter in a game like IPSC or SCSA, take Basic Handgun first. I thought my LE creds, as well as bullseye and action pistol, made me good to go. Big mistake.

[Horned Toad]

Thats like a class every quarter or so for 5 years. What or who do you consider good, is that what your after, is that reasonable? Do you compete now? How many round a year do you shoot outside of class? Do you have some other issue going on that interferes with your shooting? Where level did you start? I have a hard time believing that after a week of one on one, you don't have all you need to practice and improve on your own.

[m1a convert]

Great questions. Let me go through them one at a time.

I shot a lot 3 years ago. Most of that was courses where everyone on the line fired at the same time. Where you hit wasn't checked very often nor how fast you shot. Most courses were covering malfunctions, reloads etc making sure basic mechanics were there. I had a two year period where because of work and two new babies (thats right, one a year. I guess I should learn to treat every gun like its loaded) I wasn't able to shoot much. So most of the shooting was concentrated three years ago and was a lot of basic skill development without a lot of refinement. I also shot a lot of different weapon systems in that time period working to develop the ability to run all of them to some basic level of competence. So, that year I shot VZ-58, AK pattern rifles, MP5, Scar, etc. I worked to be able to confidently under stress work a large spectrum of weapons to a basic competency. The other area I worked on was shooting in team or pairs with communication and situational awareness being the focus. Now, I want to concentrate on developing speed and accuracy with a single platform, Glocks and AR's.

My training has been spotty over the last two years and the development of speed and accuracy never developed to the level I want. I can shoot a 6 plate rack in about 5-6 seconds with pistol at 10 yards and 3.5 seconds with a rifle. My malfunction clearances and reloads are automatic though on every weapon system I have worked on. In other words, my weapon handling is good but the ability to hit accurately at speed is not.

I am now working to define a dry-fire training program and a live fire program oriented towards speed and accuracy. I want to attend schools that focus on these areas and not as much the weapon handling.

[Horned Toad]

I would find a 2 gun match and some IDPA based stuff and go shoot some matches. Or any match for that matter. Seems like a lot of bouncing around. I have been to a few classes on your list and I can't believe they didn't check accuracy or speed. I can believe in not getting good feed back, but not that they didn't check the results of the drills. Shoot a match, see what needs work, practice, shoot a match.