Textron 6.5 showcased at Modern Day Marine

[Clint]

Here is a link to one of the presentations.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2016armamen...5_Phillips.pdf

Page 10 shows the 6.5 and 7.62 TC rounds along with a 5.56 TC.

It's obvious the 6.5 TC is designed as a full power alternative to 7.62 TC.

[KeithTexas]

Ammunition availability? Where are you finding 7.62 case-telescoped ammo for sale?

LOL

I use the standard GoldenTiger, Fiocchi, Hornady, commie bloc mil.surp

All go bang and work at minute of man/hog/deer at 200 yds and in.

I'm probably more accurate with a scoped gun than scoped ammo.

[Koshinn]

Here is a link to one of the presentations.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2016armamen...5_Phillips.pdf

Page 10 shows the 6.5 and 7.62 TC rounds along with a 5.56 TC.

It's obvious the 6.5 TC is designed as a full power alternative to 7.62 TC.

I was actually looking for that presentation earlier to show why comparing the 6.5 CT to a 5.56 gun isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison, but gave up after a few minutes.

[masakari]

I saw this there today. Interesting concept, but I fear that it may go the way of the F35, costing and weighing too much.

[fallenromeo]

What is case-telescoped ammunition? I have never heard that before reading that article

[glocktogo]

What is case-telescoped ammunition? I have never heard that before reading that article

If I read it correctly, it's a sabot encased bullet that's fully enveloped by the casing, similar to how a shotgun shell sabot round is designed. The ammunition weight savings comes in the polymer vs. brass casing.

FWIW, I can't see the feeding reliability of such a blunt nosed cartridge being equal to the feeding of a brass cased round with a pointy bullet and shouldered case? Also, considering the weight of the rifle and the mag capacity reduction of the fatter casing, what benefit does this provide over say the 6.8SPC or other mid caliber, AR length round/platform combination? Seems to me the bulk of the ammo would be nearly as inefficient as the weight of brass cased rounds? JMO, YMMV

[nml]

Interesting concept, but I fear that it may go the way of the F35, costing and weighing too much.

like the F35 this implementation is a do it all that doesn't do it any better

[mack7.62]

like the F35 this implementation is a do it all that doesn't do it any better

Oh I think the LSAT 7.62 MG at 14.7 lbs and 200 rounds of belted ammo weighing 7.5 lbs instead of the 12.2 lbs of brass cased is doing it quite a bit better. Focusing on the weapons is missing the point, the cased telescoped ammo is the major advance here, at this stage I believe the mg's and rifles are just test beds for proving the viability of the cartridges. The LSAT program has been going since 2010 with the 5.56 and has proven that the ammo works, now they are branching out into 7.62 and 6.5 and carbines instead of just mg's. I don't see the cased telescoped ammunition going away, it has too many advantages with 40% weight reduction and use of non strategic material in the cartridge case.

[nml]

But this implementation is a 123 gr 6.5mm.

For example the stealth and avionics avionics capabilities of the F35 are impressive but the implementation is a joke considering it is AT LEAST 500% more expensive than projected. Maybe we are saying the same thing. I was not knocking the rifle (of which I have certainly not broken down), only the 6.5mm projectile.

[pinzgauer]

But this implementation is a 123 gr 6.5mm.

For example the stealth and avionics avionics capabilities of the F35 are impressive but the implementation is a joke considering it is AT LEAST 500% more expensive than projected. Maybe we are saying the same thing. I was not knocking the rifle (of which I have certainly not broken down), only the 6.5mm projectile.

6.5mm 110-123g projectile is in the sweet spot for medium power cartridges. Sectional density, exterior ballistics, etc. Each caliber has a sweet spot, that gets heavier as the caliber increases.

With 110-123g being an ideal weight for recoil, action size, cartridge pressure, etc, that makes 6.5mm the ideal caliber.

This is how 6.5 Grendel approaches 7.62 NATO performance down range with much less recoil, pressure, and rifle size, etc. It was optimized for the AR-15 action. The cartridge in the article is just a case telescoped implementation of a 260 or creedmore. About 300-400 fps more than Grendel in similar barrel lengths, which would be nice.

It's no accident creedmore and 260 is starting to dominate bolt gun stuff where the 308 and 708 used to rule.

All that said, the US military will never change from 5.56 simply due to logistics. They don't have the money to cut over to a new cartridge, would be billions to develop the logistics stock they would require. And it is not solving a problem they perceive they have.

Starting clean sheet, a 6.5 based medium power carbine and LMG would be a wonderful thing. But it's not clean sheet, would be awful logistically. And not where they'd want to spend incremental budget, much less divert existing tight budget.

But a 40% decrease in ammo weight would be significant based on current SAW and 240B loadouts. But we are a very long way from anything like that. My bet, 20-30 years minimum.