(.308)Windham SRC vs Bushmaster 90702 or PTR91

[atomicsmurf]

So after I brought home my Colt 6721, my Pop decided he wanted a semi-auto rifle in a .308. He's currently got a Savage model 11 Hog Hunter bolt action that he's gonna try to sell to put money in the semi-auto .308 fund.

He's narrowed the semi-auto down to the two mentioned in the title, both take pmags. Windham is medium barrel. Bushy is heavy. Does anybody here own either of these rifles, and if so how do you like them? Or how do you hate them?

I also brought up the PTR91 to him, but he really wants a medium, or heavy barrel. And I don't really know enough about the PTR91 to steer him to or from it. So thoughts on that are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance

[foxtrotx1]

So after I brought home my Colt 6721, my Pop decided he wanted a semi-auto rifle in a .308. He's currently got a Savage model 11 Hog Hunter bolt action that he's gonna try to sell to put money in the semi-auto .308 fund.

He's narrowed the semi-auto down to the two mentioned in the title, both take pmags. Windham is medium barrel. Bushy is heavy. Does anybody here own either of these rifles, and if so how do you like them? Or how do you hate them?

I also brought up the PTR91 to him, but he really wants a medium, or heavy barrel. And I don't really know enough about the PTR91 to steer him to or from it. So thoughts on that are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance

The unanimous advice your going to get here is: never buy bushmaster or Windham. Ever. The PTR is the best choice of the 3 as far as quality goes IMO, but the PTR experts will be along shortly to talk more about that I'm sure.

The .308 game costs money for a quality rifle. Good .308 ARs start in the upper 1k range and go to 5k.

[JoshNC]

The unanimous advice your going to get here is: never buy bushmaster or Windham. Ever. The PTR is the best choice of the 3 as far as quality goes IMO, but the PTR experts will be along shortly to talk more about that I'm sure.

The .308 game costs money for a quality rifle. Good .308 ARs start in the upper 1k range and go to 5k.

This is good advice.

[tom12.7]

It would probably be helpful to look into some other options.

[TheChunkNorris]

How about an Armlite?

[Benito]

PTR's I know nothing about.
In that price range, Armalite AR-10A all the way. The DEF10 specifically.

[RazorBurn]

I have a Windham 16SFST-308 and it's been a great rifle. Windham lists their specs and they are very good. They are the old original Bushmaster crew from when Bushmaster was part of the ABC's of AR's. They have a lifetime warranty (which I have not had to use), and no affiliation with the present Bushmaster other than former owner with expired no compete clause and former employees. I picked mine up for quite a bit below MSRP, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. I have put quite a few rounds down range with mine with nary a hiccup. I especially like the fact that the former owner put a bunch of his old employees back to work instead of resting on his laurels.

As far as the medium profile barrel, I've ran mine pretty hard and it's still impressed me with it's accuracy with using cheap ZQI and Hirtenberger plinking ammunition.

Here's a link to the spec sheet. --> http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/N...-6-15-MSRP.pdf

[SomeOtherGuy]

So after I brought home my Colt 6721, my Pop decided he wanted a semi-auto rifle in a .308. He's currently got a Savage model 11 Hog Hunter bolt action that he's gonna try to sell to put money in the semi-auto .308 fund.

Note the question asked: it's not "what .308 will survive a year-long deployment to a place where I can't drink the water and children shoot at me while I'm dodging IEDs", but rather "what .308 will be adequate for my father who's buying it to replace an inexpensive bolt-action." This is not even a roving-zombie TEOTWAWKI question, it's more recreational oriented.

The unanimous advice your going to get here is: never buy bushmaster or Windham. Ever. The PTR is the best choice of the 3 as far as quality goes IMO, but the PTR experts will be along shortly to talk more about that I'm sure.

I strongly disagree. I don't own anything Windham but the spec sheet is good. I have a DPMS .308, which the current "Bushmaster" is basically a variation on, and despite the DPMS reputation it's a reasonably well made rifle. Certainly not in the league of military contract rifles (like KAC and LMT), but it functions.

Those two AR-style rifles are not apples&apples with a PTR91. The PTR is a US clone of a successful grunt design from cold war Germany. The basic design is solid. I am not sure about PTR quality. I owned one several years ago (6-7) and was not entirely impressed with it. I know that the factory has since moved and the exact mix of new, US-made parts and remaining surplus parts (if any) may have changed. I do not see any reason to assume that a PTR91 will be more durable, more reliable, or made to a more stringent quality specification than the ARs mentioned.

I encourage anyone to read all the FAQ entries on PTR91's website:
http://ptr91.com/faq/#nul

It appears they finally changed what had been a draconian warranty and ammunition statement.

If you haven't shot a PTR91 before, please note their statement "PTR’s standard trigger has a pull of approximately 9-10 pounds". Enjoy that. I don't know of a safe and easy $65 drop-in fix for it either, which there is for nearly all AR variants (ALG ACT).

Unless you are an HK armorer with a large parts rack, anything that breaks on a PTR means a trip back to the factory, just like any proprietary design. Most things that break on most AR derivatives are a DIY parts swap.

I don't know if OP and his father reload, but be aware that reloading PTR91 brass isn't really an option. First, because the ejection distance is suborbital and you may not see your brass ever again. Second, because any brass you do find is likely to have a folded/creased case mouth. While most rifle makers recommend against reloads and disclaim any liability for them, in the case of PTR91 I can 100% understand why.

The .308 game costs money for a quality rifle. Good .308 ARs start in the upper 1k range and go to 5k.

I'd be thrilled to get a really good .308 below $2k. The lowest priced one I can recommend without any reservations is a Colt 901, and those are $2100 and up any time I look. For someone who has the budget I would "buy once, cry once" with an LMT MWS ($2700+), or maybe a Daniel Defense ($2800+), or a KAC ($don't ask) if you are just swimming in cash. I have a Colt 901, but with 20/20 hindsight wish I had just spent a little more for the LMT MWS.

But someone who is replacing a low priced, basically discount-chain level bolt-action that is presumably used for either plinking or low risk hunting, does not need to spend $2700+ to meet their realistic requirements. For that person the $1000-1300 options from Windham, "Bushmaster" (Freedom Group generic) or maybe Armalite and S&W would be good options to consider, and likely meet their needs.

[MountainRaven]

If you haven't shot a PTR91 before, please note their statement "PTR’s standard trigger has a pull of approximately 9-10 pounds". Enjoy that. I don't know of a safe and easy $65 drop-in fix for it either, which there is for nearly all AR variants (ALG ACT).

Unless you are an HK armorer with a large parts rack, anything that breaks on a PTR means a trip back to the factory, just like any proprietary design. Most things that break on most AR derivatives are a DIY parts swap.

I don't know if OP and his father reload, but be aware that reloading PTR91 brass isn't really an option. First, because the ejection distance is suborbital and you may not see your brass ever again. Second, because any brass you do find is likely to have a folded/creased case mouth. While most rifle makers recommend against reloads and disclaim any liability for them, in the case of PTR91 I can 100% understand why.

A- I've had some recent PTR-91s and while the triggers were not wonderful, they were workable.
B- Unless you break a receiver, most bits and bobs on a roller-delayed-blowback gun can be replaced fairly easily with readily available parts and a little knowledge. It's really one of the earliest "modular" rifles. So long as we're talking about swapping triggers, trigger housings, stocks, handguards... not barrels.
C- My father has reloaded for his HK91 for decades. Using all sorts of brass that has been kicked out of his HK91. Including brass from rounds that were bent almost in half by M60s that - so long as he could get them into the magazine - the rifle fed and fired just fine.

I would say buy the PTR-91 and spend 50-100 bucks on magazines. Should net you plenty of magazines to make it through the Gunpocalypse (so long as it's a short-term Gunpocalypse and not a long-term AWB-esque one).

[TheChunkNorris]

I'd be thrilled to get a really good .308 below $2k. The lowest priced one I can recommend without any reservations is a Colt 901, and those are $2100 and up any time I look. For someone who has the budget I would "buy once, cry once" with an LMT MWS ($2700+), or maybe a Daniel Defense ($2800+), or a KAC ($don't ask) if you are just swimming in cash. I have a Colt 901, but with 20/20 hindsight wish I had just spent a little more for the LMT MWS.

But someone who is replacing a low priced, basically discount-chain level bolt-action that is presumably used for either plinking or low risk hunting, does not need to spend $2700+ to meet their realistic requirements. For that person the $1000-1300 options from Windham, "Bushmaster" (Freedom Group generic) or maybe Armalite and S&W would be good options to consider, and likely meet their needs.

I'm a big fan of the LMT MWS but handled an AR901(without the monolithic rail) and was rather impressed especially since you can do the 5.56 convertibility.

PTR's I know nothing about.
In that price range, Armalite AR-10A all the way. The DEF10 specifically.

I'm an HK guy and the PTR is good but not as user friendly and or modernized. It's heavy and without the 1913 rail(depending on the model)... your optics are limited.

A- I've had some recent PTR-91s and while the triggers were not wonderful, they were workable.
B- Unless you break a receiver, most bits and bobs on a roller-delayed-blowback gun can be replaced fairly easily with readily available parts and a little knowledge. It's really one of the earliest "modular" rifles. So long as we're talking about swapping triggers, trigger housings, stocks, handguards... not barrels.
C- My father has reloaded for his HK91 for decades. Using all sorts of brass that has been kicked out of his HK91. Including brass from rounds that were bent almost in half by M60s that - so long as he could get them into the magazine - the rifle fed and fired just fine.

I would say buy the PTR-91 and spend 50-100 bucks on magazines. Should net you plenty of magazines to make it through the Gunpocalypse (so long as it's a short-term Gunpocalypse and not a long-term AWB-esque one).

Agreed and the good thing is there's also some good gunsmiths still alive that can freshen up the PTR if he went down that road.