I am NOT a happy camper. That, in short, is my summary of my entire experience with the B&T APC 45 and B&T USA thus far. Get comfortable, this is gonna be a long one.
Let me begin: 3 months ago I spoke with my friend who had just become a B&T distributor. He's an HK aficionado so I asked him if he knew where I could find an HK USC with the intent of doing a UMP conversion. A 45 acp pistol caliber carbine has always been an area in which I was interested but not one I had pursued very far. We talked about the UMP then the Kriss Vector and he point out the APC 45 as a solid alternative to sinking several thousand dollars into something I may or may not like in the end. He also added that he would sell it to me at dealer cost + any shipping costs. I went home, did my research and decided the APC 45 seemed like a better engineered product (there weren't then, nor are now any in depth, independent reviews of the APC 45). The straight forward design and simplicity of use and modification appealed to me right off the bat. So after thinking about it a few days, I stopped by and asked him to order me one. In total I ordered the APC, three 25 round mags, and a B&T stock all for less than the cost of most shops' retail price for the APC alone.
A week later he called me to say my order had come in and I could pick it up anytime. I came in the following day after work, picked up the APC and thanked him, assuring him I would know what I thought about it soon. I took the APC home, cleaned it, lubed it, loaded up the mags and let it sit till the next day when I would have time to shoot it. I took it to the range along with 400 rounds of quality range ammo, American Eagle, Winchester White box, Federal, and Remington UMC, all 230 grain FMJ, and fired the first shots through it. After approximately 12 rounds I had my first failure to eject. I dropped the mag, cleared the malfunction and continued on, 5 or 6 rounds later, another FTE. I shot the rest of the mag without issue. I gave the pistol the benefit of the doubt, the fit of every component on the APC is extremely tight so I figured a "breaking in period" might be required, however I generally don't subscribe to the "break in period" per se, I continued on. Next mag, FTE on the second round, 3 FTE's in a row after round 12, then finished up the mag without any issues. At this point I was a bit concerned but I inserted the next mag and shot all 24 rounds (yes, 24, the mags are supposed to hold 25, but there is no way in heaven or hell you'll fit in that 25th round) without any issues. Feeling relieved, I inserted the fourth and final mag, and right of the bat FTEs out the wazoo, rounds 2,3,5,12,13,15, and 20. At this point I was mildly pissed. I stepped off the line, and called my friend. He was concerned and apologetic, said he would text his contact at B&T and see what he had to say. I came back to the line, loaded up the 4 mags and began all over again. Everything was the same, except the mag that shot issue free at first also began to suffer from the notorious failures to eject.
After those 4 mags were empty, I glanced at my phone. My friend forwarded me a text from the B&T rep, he said that they have had reports of malfunctions caused by limp wresting the pistol creating a condition where bolt bounce could cause the pistol to jam. I responded that I would continue to shoot the pistol paying attention to my grip and eliminating any possible limp wrist situations. I shot another 2 mags with the same results. At this point I figured if I am limp wristing it I'll install a KAK shockwave brace I brought along to try out on the APC. Installing the Shockwave on the APC is a piece of cake, unscrew the hinge screw with a torx bit, remove the sling attachment screw from the end plate, screw in the Shockwave buffer tube and tighten the castle nut. With the Shockwave brace firmly installed I loaded up the four mags and shot the APC with the shockwave. The same malfunctions occurred and at roughly the same intervals. The usual pattern of malfunctions was during the first 3 rounds, then again in the middle of the mag (roughly rounds 10-15), with few occurring randomly in the final 10 rounds of a mag.
Here are an assortment of photos of the failures I was having, for your enjoyment:
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So there I was, 300 rounds fired, in excess of 35+ malfunctions (I stopped counting towards the end), and I didn't enjoy one minute of it. I saved the last 100 rounds, packed up and went home. I stopped by my friend's shop and let him know how it went and showed him numerous pictures of the malfunctions. He gave me the number for B&T USA and suggested I give them a call and explain in depth what was happening. I called, spoke with a friendly sounding guy named Tim and explained what was happening. It was pretty clear he didn't really believe there was anything wrong with the pistol, rather suggesting the limp wrist inducing bolt bounce theory. When I explained I installed the Shockwave and had the same issues, he didn't really register what could be going on. He suggested I email him the pictures of the malfunctions as well as detailed photos of the APC internals and requested I send it in for them to look at.
The next chance I had I sent it to their Florida address. After they had had it for a week, I hadn't heard anything, nor did my friend receive any contact. I called B&T USA numerous times that week and no one picked up the phone. I called again early the following week and a pleasant sounding lady named Jessica answered. I explained who I was and that I was trying to reach Tim concerning my APC. She said Tim was out of the country and wouldn't be back till later in the week, I thanked her, gave her my contact info and said goodbye. Another week went by without any contact and I called B&T USA. Jessica answered again and informed me Tim had test fired my APC that morning and that she will have him give me a call with the results. Ten minutes later I received a video text message of my APC firing 15 rounds flawlessly. I responded "Awesome" and asked what they fixed, he responded "nothing." We exchanged texts for a bit and I asked if it would be ok if we spoke. I gave him a call and we spoke for about 15 minutes. He said he and his colleagues had shot 150 rounds through it without incident. We continued to speak, he gave me his input, I gave him mine, all very friendly, and he said that B&T had suggested that maybe the chamber was rough causing issues with extraction. He asked me if he could polish the chamber and test fire it more. I agreed. The following week I called him on his cell and he said that he shot more ammo through it without incident and that perhaps the chamber was rough from the factory and that all the shooting I had done had polished it to the point that it was functioning correctly. I, extremely skeptical, said ok send it back to me.
2 days later I received my APC. The first thing I did was load up my 4 mags and head to the range. Nothing was different. The APC was continuing to malfunction at consistent intervals. I text him photos as well as videos of what was happening and he seemed genuinely shocked. He saw me shooting it, saw everything that was happening, and what the APC was doing and said that he could offer me a refund. We spoke further on the phone and he asked if I tried the same ammo he was shooting during his test firing (S&B 45 230 FMJ) I said no, but I have some at home and I'll give that a try if he wants. I packed up the APC with 50 rounds of S&B ammo and headed to range. I shot 24 rounds filming everything and sent him the video. He was shocked yet again and offered me a replacement APC. I agreed and had my friend ship the APC back to Tim. My friend shipped it to Tim the following day and provided me the tracking info. That was 3 weeks ago and I haven't heard anything since. I texted Tim only one time during these three weeks and I didn't receive a response.
Now I know every company puts out a lemon from time to time and I doubt my replacement APC will suffer the same malfunctions this one has. While their customer service approach has been highly personal, calling me on my cell phone, the B&T rep disclosing his cell phone to me, and texting back and forth, it has been a difficult process thus far.
So, in conclusion, I've owned the APC 45 for approximately 2 months, only had it in my hands for 6 days, shot approximately 450 unenjoyable rounds, suffered God only knows how many malfunctions, and have been promised a new new one but have not heard or seen anything about it for 3 weeks. To say that I am aggravated is an understatement. I know a lot of people have had success with the APC 9 and other B&T products, but my experience with the APC 45 and B&T USA is not nearly the joy I had in mind when I gave my friend and dealer a rather large wad of cash.
Originally Posted by RichDC2
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