Selling NFA Trust?

[tigershilone]

Minor cannot be a trustee----under the age of 21. Nfa trust requires trustees to be 21+, however a beneficiary can be under 21 but again cannot inherit until 21.

Another point on my trust is it becomes unrevocable upon the settler's death. In other words it becomes set in stone and cannot be changed. This again ties it back to a living being. It cannot be passed down to a new grantor.

[GrahamKAC]

My lawyer is my NFA trust lawyer. Last week I went in to my LGS and they said that they sold 1300 silencers last month and something like 900 the month before. They have reached out to the manufactures like Silencerco, KAC, Gemtech, Sure fire and purchased like 5000 silencers. Only problem was that those silencers don't exist yet so they have asked each company to send future serial numbers on an excel sheet for each item on there order form. That is what people are buying right now. A serial number to a silencer that hasn't been made yet. Kind of like buying futures. The ATF wait time is approx. 10 months and the manufacturing lead time is 3-5 months. You pay in full + $200 and wait over a year in some cases. So my idea was simple, selling trust with NFA items for a premium. My NFA lawyer said there isn't a law against it but un sure because most people don't sell trust for obvious reasons. It would be a simple amendment to remove me from the trust and add someone else. Parents do it all the time for there kids. It just seems that no one know about transfer of NFA items while protected by a trust.

Who's your local gun shop? I'm not sure how much faith I would put in their advice given some of those figures.

Let's say the average can is $750 retail, and $500 wholesale. So 1300 x 750 = $975,000 a month in NFA?

5000 units x $500 = $2.5 mil. They've backordered over $2.5 million worth of inventory?

A few of the manufactures you've mentioned don't do direct sales and require you go through a wholesaler.

I've been in the wholesale firearms game before, we don't even backorder that kind of product, especially something like NFA.

[The FNG]

Why couldn't you have the "buyer" added to the trust, meanwhile having them make a deposit into the trust for $x ("sale price"). You withdrawal the deposit and remove yourself from the trust. I don't see how that's illegal being that the stamp is sold to the trust and the ATF didn't require notification of changes to the trust when the stamp was created. The "buyer" would be in total legal possession. You could call the $$ legal fees and be done with it.


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[elephant]

Who's your local gun shop? I'm not sure how much faith I would put in their advice given some of those figures.

Let's say the average can is $750 retail, and $500 wholesale. So 1300 x 750 = $975,000 a month in NFA?

5000 units x $500 = $2.5 mil. They've backordered over $2.5 million worth of inventory?

A few of the manufactures you've mentioned don't do direct sales and require you go through a wholesaler.

I've been in the wholesale firearms game before, we don't even backorder that kind of product, especially something like NFA.

They are a small gun shop that's been around a long time. They are actually a hardware store but mostly sell guns. They have 3 full time gun smiths and 2 full time lawyers. They are distributors for Surefire and Silencerco and partners with Silencer Shop.

[elephant]

Why use a random name for the trust? Did you not give them your info when you filled out the forms under authorized official
Your method is going to get nfa trusts fully banned.

The idea behind a general trust is to protect your assets in case of your death and to leave money that will not be subject to tax. A NFA trust has nothing to do with assets in reality. It a tool to remove your name as the purchaser of a NFA item. There are several different kinds of trust, Special Needs Trust, Estate Tax Exemption Trust, Life Trust, Irrevocable Life Trust, Bypass Trust etc. and they all work differently. The reason I chose to have individual trust with different names for each individual item is because of how a NFA trust works. All of my trust are owned by a single member LLC holdings company. In the eyes of the IRS, technically, your not allowed to take anything out of a trust without putting it back- I know that from experience. So if you buy a $1000 silencer and you sell it later for $1000, technically, a $1000 is to remain in your trust or you are responsible for paying income and capital gains tax. That's the whole point of having a trust is to avoid paying those taxes. So the NFA trust works similar but is mostly a way to buy NFA items without using our name and having to get a CLEO signature.

I'm not trying to skirt the law or break the law. I proposed an idea which was to sell the trust with the item as a whole in a package deal for a premium. I can add someone to my trust and they don't have to wait 10 months or pay $200 tax. I've already done that. So what is the difference between me adding someone to my trust and selling them the trust. They have access to the specific item either way.

[Conrad101st]

Amen brother. That's what we like is thinking outside the box. Don't let the naysayers get you down.
I don't believe that they can do much else to screw up trusts under the NFA without congressional action.

Non human entities can definitely be trustees. I.E., an LLC.

Guess my question is how you would define the duration of the trust based on the life of the Trustor.

[elephant]

I don't really understand trust. Our government writes laws under the assumption that every citizen in this country went to Harvard Law and was a senior partner at a law firm. I have asked a couple of lawyers and accountants and they clearly don't understand why I want to sell a trust because in there eyes, a trust is a sacred and protected and when I bring up class III weapons, they assume I mean illegal weapons. Its probably a bad idea. From what I have read, people can pass trust on like for instance if a wealthy man creates a trust for his child, his child can pass that on to his child and so forth. Think about the Rockefellers, Melons, Johnsons etc. There money is 100 years old. But selling the trust as a whole is beyond me.

[RedLightning]

Sounds like tax evasion.

[elephant]

Sounds like tax evasion.

I pay tax on the NFA item plus another $200 tax- how is that tax evasion?

[elephant]

You withdrawal the deposit and remove yourself from the trust. I don't see how that's illegal being that the stamp is sold to the trust and the ATF didn't require notification of changes to the trust when the stamp was created. The "buyer" would be in total legal possession. You could call the $$ legal fees and be done with it.

That's a felony and a white collar crime. You cant remove money from a trust and comingle with personal money without filing a form with IRS and subject to income tax, capital gains tax and fees- its bullshit I know!