New Springfield Armory AR

[Vibrant86]

Spent all morning reading through this thread hoping to find meaningful info on this new rifle, man what a waste of time. Not trying to knock anyone but most of you completely lost sight of the OP intent. I've gone through 37 pages of what turned out almost entirely to be about "mil-spec" matters I know more tit-for-tat *#%k measuring contest nonsense. Probably half the posts Springfield isn't even mentioned. Again I'm not trying to upset anyone just letting it be known from a new guys perspective how frustrating that can be when looking through a thread about something you're interested in.

If anyone OWNS one of these, things I'd like to know about it:
How does it feel?( comfortable, tight, cheap etc)
Does it shoot well/accurate?
Based on your experience with it do you think the price is right?
Is there anything you want to change on it/any complaints?
Malfunctions?
What was the reason for purchase?

Thanks

[jackblack73]

Spent all morning reading through this thread hoping to find meaningful info on this new rifle, man what a waste of time. Not trying to knock anyone but most of you completely lost sight of the OP intent. I've gone through 37 pages of what turned out almost entirely to be about "mil-spec" matters I know more tit-for-tat *#%k measuring contest nonsense. Probably half the posts Springfield isn't even mentioned. Again I'm not trying to upset anyone just letting it be known from a new guys perspective how frustrating that can be when looking through a thread about something you're interested in.

If anyone OWNS one of these, things I'd like to know about it:
How does it feel?( comfortable, tight, cheap etc)
Does it shoot well/accurate?
Based on your experience with it do you think the price is right?
Is there anything you want to change on it/any complaints?
Malfunctions?
What was the reason for purchase?

Thanks

Since you're new you should probably look into what this site is about and the type of people that frequent it. It's not really about hobby rifles.

[Pandaz3]

Coulda fooled me

[MistWolf]

I've gotten a better technical education about ARs through discussions on this website than any other. Questions were raised that inspired research and critical thinking that challenges and changed what I though I knew about self loading firearms in general and ARs in particular. The "general consensus" on this site doesn't always get it right, but it's right more often than any other site I frequent

[Kdubya]

Vibrant...I'm surprised you made it through the whole thread. If you stick around long enough, you'll notice a trend. Most discussions that center around anything other than a "top tier" brand will eventually delve into bickering about mil-spec, the TDP, and hard use. You'll see comments that Brand X is no good, simply because it's not Brand Y. That, at best, it's a hobby grade rifle. Any actual user reports indicating a positive experience are met with accusations that the poster is trying to say Brand X is "just as good as" the exalted Brands. Acknowledging someone like Springfield makes a serviceable AR doesn't take away from the "top-tier" Brands; yet some don't seem to understand this. It's an all or nothing game.

If "hobby grade" AR performs well, it's a sample of one. On the other hand, if it has issues it's treated as a sample of all. Those assertions then seem to be the opposite when dealing with the acceptable Brands. If someone with a preferred Brand has an issue or critique, the poster will often be chastised for not contacting the MFG and provide them an opportunity to make it right. It's supposed to be a forum policy to first contact the mfg. If that's not done the thread will be locked. I actually believe this is a great rule, but it's not applied equitably. For the "hobby grade" brands, posters will have a field day lambasting the mfg. If a top tier brand, they're given every benefit of the doubt. There was actually a thread a while back regarding a guy who had an issue with his BCM rifle. He contacted BCM, let them troubleshoot, but the issue persisted. Still, the mods asked the OP give them another chance to make it right, and locked the thread in the interim. Again, I think this is a good policy. But that level of courtesy is almost never extended to the majority of other brands. On rare occasions they may get the initial benefit of the doubt. But twice, not a chance.

There's still a lot of good information to be found here. But if you're looking for an unbiased discussion based upon end user reports, you may want to research elsewhere; or at least learn to muddle through the bs.

I'm actually glad you posted, as a realization needs to be made that fellow AR owners are being driven away. Some here may think this is a good thing, as the groupthink stays intact. In reality, it's a recipe for stagnation and extinction. It's like a group of guys in their 30s, constantly reliving their high school glory days. It might feel good for those on the inside, saying all the right things and being blindly being accepted as "in the know". But to others, it's just tiresome.

[PaLEOjd]

Spent all morning reading through this thread hoping to find meaningful info on this new rifle, man what a waste of time. Not trying to knock anyone but most of you completely lost sight of the OP intent. I've gone through 37 pages of what turned out almost entirely to be about "mil-spec" matters I know more tit-for-tat *#%k measuring contest nonsense. Probably half the posts Springfield isn't even mentioned. Again I'm not trying to upset anyone just letting it be known from a new guys perspective how frustrating that can be when looking through a thread about something you're interested in.

If anyone OWNS one of these, things I'd like to know about it:
How does it feel?( comfortable, tight, cheap etc)
Does it shoot well/accurate?
Based on your experience with it do you think the price is right?
Is there anything you want to change on it/any complaints?
Malfunctions?
What was the reason for purchase?

Thanks

This post is typical of something you would read over on the other site where they praise rifles that are not properly built and judge them on their looks. Do some research and educate yourself before you make a post like the above. You may want to take a trip to the other site seeing that you list qualities that are popular over there.
The 37 pagers you say you've gone through actually contain good information on specs and true quality.

The post made by "Kdubya" has some good descriptions in it but it's not entirely true. Most people around here appreciate and depend on having quality gear, no matter what it's used for. Many like myself may need to protect/save lives with our firearms and they need to function properly each and every time. The attitude isn't 'b rand-x' or nothing, it's which manufacturers actually build their rifle/carbine to the known minimum spec., which manufacturers actually post their specs., which manufacturers have been run hard and proven to work. That stuff is important to most here when looking to make a purchase. There are several manufacturers who meet the standards, and many that don't even come close.

If quality is what you really want, don't purchase based on price. Educate yourself and you won't have buyers remorse.

[Vibrant86]

Ok look, I'm not trying to bash this forum and this sort of thing goes on at every forum at some point. And there was some statements posted that I agree with, some I don't and that's fine. My point was that 3/4 of the thread went on about topics not really even related to the what the original intent was, all because a few people can't a agree to disagree about something that isn't even a Springfield. So yeah, I was a little irritated after reading through all that with hopes of there being M4c member breakdown of how the rifle stacks up and not get much. I know there are a few reviews out on websites and YouTube, and what I've seen has had nothing but good things to say. I don't know what "other" site you're referring to, but all I'm trying to do is get info from people who have had time with this new rifle and what their experience is with it. There was another thread posted recently asking in short what I was wondering as well, but was responded with a link to this one and then closed. I don't know what that was about but here I am now. Hoping that someone will post something about how it shoots, etc soon. And for the record, I'm sure moderators don't appreciate members trying to run off new comers. You need to understand that not everyone, if not the majority, is looking for something that a navy seal would be carrying that cost $2k. There's nothing wrong with a budget rifle as long as it works. Not saying I wouldn't take a high dollar rifle if I could, but that's out of my price range and frankly unless I have money to burn it's not really that practical to me. Now if you're LEO and have a lot of training for swat I get it, or even if you just want it that's fine too.

[williejc]

The man has a point. The thread presents a tad of negative criticism and a bit ridicule, which may or may not be warranted. I have no intention of buying one but do have an academic interest in how well they perform. Are they in the Bushmaster category? What other AR offerings is the Saint similar to? Do they fit within the lower tier of acceptable rifles? Anybody have opinions about Saint barrels or bcg's. Do they appear to be put together correctly? Are they over gassed? One reason for my interest is that Springfield Armory, a major company, has entered the AR competition.

[SeriousStudent]

..... And for the record, I'm sure moderators don't appreciate members trying to run off new comers. ......

Hi. I'm a moderator.

Nope, we do not appreciate folks trying to run off new members here.

And we also have a mission statement here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...sion-Statement

And it's expanded on here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...-M4Carbine-net

If you will peruse those, you will find that this forum tends to be more technically oriented than some others. Hence what a lot of people see, when people talk about standards and performance. Appearances tend to be considered of lower importance by many folks here.

A lot of my AR's would not look very good, regarding their appearance. Cosmetically, a fair number look down right ugly. It's because they get used.

And in regard to $2,000 rifles, some may need or want them, and others may not. Pat Rogers (RIP) used to say "Mission drives the gear train". If you have an AR that fills your needs, and it cost you $500 - rock on. That's awesome.

Where you will almost always get an immediate reaction is when people start saying that something with lesser QC is always as good as a weapon with better QC. It's about like saying a Yugo is always as good as a Porsche, and you are just paying for the Porsche name.

A Yugo may get you to work, but you would not be wise to trust it on a cross country drive. I'm probably not going to trust a $500 AR to protect my life and grandchildren, if I have a choice in the matter.

So no, we don't appreciate folks being run off because they are new. But we also want people to come in, read, learn the culture, and do some research before immediately telling us we have no idea of what we speak.

Virtually all of the mods/staff here are trained AR armorers. We have a lot of Industry Professionals here with decades of experience on the AR platform. I'm not just talking carrying an AR, I'm talking about building them or supporting hundred or thousands of weapons on multiple combat deployments.

So welcome, lean back, read a lot, and have a good time.

[modelbuilder56]

Well I wasn't sure I wanted to post this but here goes.

There are more than a few members here who own PSA rifles according to the thread on PSA quality awhile back, I had two and wasn't impressed with their quality so to reply to jackblack73 and your comment about hobby rifles I consider PSA to be in that category and they are owned by members here along with their Colt's etc. who are indeed professionals and I know two of them. I'am not a professional and I do not depend on my rifle like the majority of people here do but I have learned alot here from reading, and not much posting. I own a few Colt's, a complete BCM and a DDM4V11 and I went through the budget brands and learned to appreciate the quality of Colt, etc . learning from members here.

With that being said I found a Springfield last week, paid $819 plus tax. The lower appears to be fine, heavy buffer with a 7075 R.E., LPK jury is out on that as I saw no Schneider tool stamps on the parts, I don't think they are MIM but I put an ALG ACT FCG in it. Rear sight is gone, it appears to be UTG junk and the most disappointing item was the PKMR handguard, the upper part is made up of two pieces and it is not as robust as a Magpul MOE one. I replaced the extractor spring with a BCM enhanced spring and removed the crane o ring that came with the rifles extractor spring. Castle nut is staked in one spot, not like Colt's but servicable, gas key is staked properly too. I base my observations on the three rifles I own that I consider to be of a known quality.

I don't like the engraving on the right side of the magwell but that is personal preference, I have less than 300 rounds of mixed 223/556 and it ran fine so far. Ejection pattern is consistent and distance is the same as my 6920 so it appears to be over gassed for a mid length. Accuracy is right up there with the other rifles I own, actually I shoot it better than my 6920's but that's just me.

If this is your first rifle I would say spend a few more dollars and get a Colt, the Springfield rifle is an unknown quantity at the moment but I have other rifles I can count on. Fit and finish is superb but that is cosmetic, I would rather have a rifle that looks like s*&^ but runs.

I like mid length rifles for the longer sight radius which is personal preference and I'am not sorry I bought this Springfield.

So far so good but time will tell