snub load

[moonshot]

I used to load my airweight with 135gr Gold Dots, but have over the last year or so loaded it with 148gr WCs. My accuracy has improved, my groups are tighter, and my split times are faster. Plus, I've seen too many videos and read too many reports of HPs, even SBGDs, not opening up after passing through heavy clothing into ordanance gel when fired from a sub-2" barrel.

My question - in spite of my better performance with WCs, is there still a valid reason to load up with the bonded GD? Perhaps better penetration through heavy layered winter clothing? Perhaps if shooting through autoglass? While I do not envision having to shoot into a car (I am not a LEO), I can envision a scenario of having to potentially shoot from inside out (forced off the road, boxed in traffic, caught in a riot, etc).

Would a bonded Gold Dot (or perhaps a standard pressure 158gr SWC) be a better "winter weather" load? A better "driving through town" load? Or should I just stick with my WCs, where POA = POI, recoil is light, and follow up shots are faster?

[Ron3]

IMO there isn't much point with a bonded pistol bullet when the velocity is so slow.

If your shooting noticeably better with the lower-recoil loads definitely use them!

My wife's LCR357 is loaded with standard-pressure .38 special Hornady XTP 125 gr JHP's. Recoil is low, they may mushroom out a little (and if at all, not enough to impede penetration) and they are extremely accurate.

My LCR357 is loaded with .357 magnum Critical Duty 135 gr. It's a mild .357 load and the LCR with Hogue Tamer grip is a particularly easy-shooting revolver.

If your concerned the 148 gr WC loads are loaded too light (and they often are loaded very light..575-675 fps from a snub) then yea try some 125 SWC-FP, SJHP, JHP or 158 gr SWC-FP /SWCHP in standard pressure.

Something that starts with a flat point is better. If it's a hollow point and doesn't expand or not much, so what? The important thing is that it's on target and penetrates.

[T2C]

Several years back we tested the 135g +P Gold Dot with my Model 60 J Frame. I chronographed the load at 10' from the muzzle. Published velocity is 860 fps and the load chronographed at 834 fps Average Velocity 10' from the muzzle. High Velocity was 862 fps and Low Velocity was 809 fps.

Two rounds were fired into properly prepared bare ballistic gelatin. Both projectiles penetrated 12" and expanded to .574". Two rounds were fired through denim into a new gelatin block. Both projectiles penetrated 14" and expanded to .549".

I was really surprised at how well the Gold Dot performed when fired through a 1-7/8" barrel. I don't know how well it would perform when shot through heavy clothing. If the hollow point fills with heavy material I suspect penetration would be deeper.

[moonshot]

My concern with the 135gr SBGDs stemmed from reports that when cold, the ammo did not develope the same velocity, and was actually in the 750 to 800 FPS range, and often did not open up. My understanding is a HP that fails to expand behaves more like RN, and causes less wounding than a full WC. Add the higher recoil of the +P round in a 15oz gun opening up my groups and slowing my split time, and you see why I moved to WCs.

However, I often carry my airweight on my ankle, and where I live it's cold six months out of the year, and I thought this might be an issue.

My WCs are moving out at a leasurely 700 FPS (+-, mostly -), and I thought perhaps I might be better off with a better penetrating round, at least in the winter when prople tend to wear layers, often consisting of leather, down, and/or fiberfill. If the SBGD recoiled too much, or opened up my groups too much, I might try using standard pressure 158gr SWCs.

Finally, I read of a police officer who stated the two times he had his j-frame out and was prepared to use it, he was in or around a car. Again, I'm not a cop, but this did get me thinking. I remember a time many years ago when my wife was involved in a road rage incident and was nearly forced off the road. She managed to stay on the road and get to her destination without incident, but she was also unarmed. Would a j-frame loaded with WCs perform well enough if she had to fire through a window at her attacker? I don't know. Would a harder to control bonded bullet out of that same j-frame perform better? Again, I don't know.

I am very happy with the performance of my WCs, and it's what is in both our j-frames right now. However, with winter coming, I began to wonder if conditions might warrant a different round, at least until spring.

[LOBO]

I carry the Corbon .38 special 110 gr DPX load in my 442. I have seen it recommended by DocGKR on a couple of forums. I personally don't find the recoil between it and the 148 gr wadcutters to be very different from each other. The conical shape of the 110 gr DPX bullets also makes reloading with a speedloader a fairly fast process.

[T2C]

My concern with the 135gr SBGDs stemmed from reports that when cold, the ammo did not develope the same velocity, and was actually in the 750 to 800 FPS range, and often did not open up. My understanding is a HP that fails to expand behaves more like RN, and causes less wounding than a full WC. Add the higher recoil of the +P round in a 15oz gun opening up my groups and slowing my split time, and you see why I moved to WCs.

However, I often carry my airweight on my ankle, and where I live it's cold six months out of the year, and I thought this might be an issue.

My WCs are moving out at a leasurely 700 FPS (+-, mostly -), and I thought perhaps I might be better off with a better penetrating round, at least in the winter when prople tend to wear layers, often consisting of leather, down, and/or fiberfill. If the SBGD recoiled too much, or opened up my groups too much, I might try using standard pressure 158gr SWCs.

Finally, I read of a police officer who stated the two times he had his j-frame out and was prepared to use it, he was in or around a car. Again, I'm not a cop, but this did get me thinking. I remember a time many years ago when my wife was involved in a road rage incident and was nearly forced off the road. She managed to stay on the road and get to her destination without incident, but she was also unarmed. Would a j-frame loaded with WCs perform well enough if she had to fire through a window at her attacker? I don't know. Would a harder to control bonded bullet out of that same j-frame perform better? Again, I don't know.

I am very happy with the performance of my WCs, and it's what is in both our j-frames right now. However, with winter coming, I began to wonder if conditions might warrant a different round, at least until spring.

Please cite the source of the reports. I would like to read them for my own reference.

[LOBO]

If your main concern with the wadcutters is shallow penetration against winter clothing, I wouldn't worry. The wadcutter is a deep penetrator.

My concern with the 135gr SBGDs stemmed from reports that when cold, the ammo did not develope the same velocity, and was actually in the 750 to 800 FPS range, and often did not open up. My understanding is a HP that fails to expand behaves more like RN, and causes less wounding than a full WC. Add the higher recoil of the +P round in a 15oz gun opening up my groups and slowing my split time, and you see why I moved to WCs.

However, I often carry my airweight on my ankle, and where I live it's cold six months out of the year, and I thought this might be an issue.

My WCs are moving out at a leasurely 700 FPS (+-, mostly -), and I thought perhaps I might be better off with a better penetrating round, at least in the winter when prople tend to wear layers, often consisting of leather, down, and/or fiberfill. If the SBGD recoiled too much, or opened up my groups too much, I might try using standard pressure 158gr SWCs.

Finally, I read of a police officer who stated the two times he had his j-frame out and was prepared to use it, he was in or around a car. Again, I'm not a cop, but this did get me thinking. I remember a time many years ago when my wife was involved in a road rage incident and was nearly forced off the road. She managed to stay on the road and get to her destination without incident, but she was also unarmed. Would a j-frame loaded with WCs perform well enough if she had to fire through a window at her attacker? I don't know. Would a harder to control bonded bullet out of that same j-frame perform better? Again, I don't know.

I am very happy with the performance of my WCs, and it's what is in both our j-frames right now. However, with winter coming, I began to wonder if conditions might warrant a different round, at least until spring.

[Lefty223]

Went through ALL of this ... and finally convinced myself to carry a 380 semi-auto, as the Corbon and other premium SD loads in that caliber have a better FBI lethality/stopping rating than a lowly 38 Spl out of a snubbie. It was someone on here that linked me to those studies - so look it up and decide for yourself.

If I were to carry a snubbie, it would likely be that lightweight framed 8-shot one w/ crimson trace laser grip in 22 Mag, at least that will penetrate a vest.

[moonshot]

T2C - I'll try and find those links.

LOBO - Yes, my main concern is penetration through heavy winter clothing. I've seen some penetration tests into bare gel, but nothing through heavy clothing.

I like WCs in my airweight - they shoot to POA, have nice tight groups, and follow up shots are relatively fast - tighter and faster than they were when I was shooting 135gr GDs. It's not that the GDs were all over the place - I shot them well too, it's just that I shoot the WCs better.

Plus, if I am carrying my J-frame as a bug and I needed to give it to my wife or daughters in an emergency, they can all handle the WC far better than any +P round.

Perhaps the way to ask my question is from the other end - what does the bonded HP that doesn't expand do out of a short barrel that a WC doesn't do? I know these rounds were designed for snubs, and PDs that see their use have reported a great deal of success. Whether they open up is not really the issue. Did they stop the assailant? That's what counts.

If they both do about the same, I'll stick with the WCs (for all the reasons cited above). If the bonded HP does a better job, well then I need to make a decision.

[jandbj]

Best of both worlds?
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=111

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