Best Entry Level General Purpose AR10

[Falar]

Explain.

Was it weight? Barrel swap gimmicky?

I thought the MWS was essentially the SR-25s slightly more plain cousin.

Part of me wants an AR10A receiver kit to attempt an idea build.

Part of me would rather hope in another 4 years I can nick another SR-25

If I was going to do a build (which I wouldn't since I have an ACC and APR) I would just get a MEGA upper/lower set and go from there. Then you could use a KAC URX.

On another forum I mentioned once that LMT does not appeal to me as I find the monolithic upper too limiting. I got a smarty-smart response back "I don't change my rails like I change my socks so it doesn't matter" and well, neither do I.

BUT time marches on and better rails become available. The MLOK URX4 is much lighter and IMO all-around better than the URX II. I would hate to not be able to upgrade when better things became available.

When the Colt 6940 came out I said the same thing while everyone else was drooling about it. I had already settled on 13"+ rails as what I liked on a 16" gun so the rifle never appealed to me. I see less and less of them these days so maybe time has borne out that I was not alone.

[SomeOtherGuy]

My uses for this rifle would be the following: General Target shooting, Long Range Shooting 400-800M, Defensive use, and Hunting.

The best fit for those four uses would probably be a quality AR in 5.56 plus a quality bolt-action rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or similar for the long range shooting and hunting. It is much easier, and cheaper, to get a bolt action to a high accuracy level than a semiauto of any kind. And while .308 Win has massive availability, the 6.5mm calibers will do pretty much everything a .308 will do, but with less recoil and better long-range performance (due to higher BC bullets). For that matter, you could skip the AR entirely, because you'll need the rest of your $1300 to put a decent scope onto a $500 bolt action rifle, and you can get a handgun or 12ga for specific home defense uses.

If it just has to be an AR platform, the Daniel Defense and LMT MWS are probably the closest fit, but at 2-3x your budget.

If you just want a .308 AR because, in your price range I would also vote for the Armalite.

If you didn't care about weight or ruggedness but wanted accuracy, the gen1 DPMS .308s are often fairly accurate and don't cost much. I know that DPMS is blasphemy here, but if you look at them as a hobby rifle with no "hard use" pretensions, they aren't too bad. (And yes I know that hobby rifles with no "hard use" pretensions is the opposite of what M4C is focused on.)

[Boba Fett v2]

On another forum I mentioned once that LMT does not appeal to me as I find the monolithic upper too limiting. I got a smarty-smart response back "I don't change my rails like I change my socks so it doesn't matter" and well, neither do I.

That was you?! Lol

Anyway, the MWS is a great platform, a very well made rifle, shares some DNA with KAC, and I can appreciate the fact that you're not limited to just one caliber. YMMV

[crusader377]

The best fit for those four uses would probably be a quality AR in 5.56 plus a quality bolt-action rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor or similar for the long range shooting and hunting. It is much easier, and cheaper, to get a bolt action to a high accuracy level than a semiauto of any kind. And while .308 Win has massive availability, the 6.5mm calibers will do pretty much everything a .308 will do, but with less recoil and better long-range performance (due to higher BC bullets). For that matter, you could skip the AR entirely, because you'll need the rest of your $1300 to put a decent scope onto a $500 bolt action rifle, and you can get a handgun or 12ga for specific home defense uses.

If it just has to be an AR platform, the Daniel Defense and LMT MWS are probably the closest fit, but at 2-3x your budget.

If you just want a .308 AR because, in your price range I would also vote for the Armalite.

If you didn't care about weight or ruggedness but wanted accuracy, the gen1 DPMS .308s are often fairly accurate and don't cost much. I know that DPMS is blasphemy here, but if you look at them as a hobby rifle with no "hard use" pretensions, they aren't too bad. (And yes I know that hobby rifles with no "hard use" pretensions is the opposite of what M4C is focused on.)

I came to that conclusion and put on hold my plans for a .308 AR. Relatively recently, I finished building out a recce style AR with a 1x4 variable using a BCM SOCOM upper and complete BCM lower. I also stocked up on 75gr match ammo and I feel this platform will give me a very reliable, durable rifle which provides me a 80% solution without investing in a new rifle. I may in the future pick up a .308 bolt type rifle for longer range shooting.

I appreciate everyone's feedback on this post.

[SomeOtherGuy]

Great - that sounds very practical. When you are ready for a bolt action, look into the 6.5mm calibers including 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington and 6.5x47mm Lapua. They offer less recoil, flatter trajectory, more range to subsonic break, and enough energy for hunting common big game through elk and possibly even moose. Availability and price of ammo was an issue until recently but all of them are becoming easier to find, with 6.5 CM probably the easiest bet right now since Hornady offers loaded ammo for about $1/rd (equivalent to .308 Win match ammo) and Lapua just announced that they will make brass for that cartridge.

[misfit47]

You made a sound decision.

[if4not]

I have a completely ignorant question: What makes the three proposed options unsuitable for the OP's requirements? I assume they all have the standard mediocre mil spec triggers that would be a huge detriment to his goal of shooting 400-800m. Are the barrels not high enough quality for consistent accuracy? (I'm trying to learn, please be patient with me).

[SomeOtherGuy]

I have a completely ignorant question: What makes the three proposed options unsuitable for the OP's requirements? I assume they all have the standard mediocre mil spec triggers that would be a huge detriment to his goal of shooting 400-800m. Are the barrels not high enough quality for consistent accuracy? (I'm trying to learn, please be patient with me).

OP said:

My uses for this rifle would be the following: General Target shooting, Long Range Shooting 400-800M, Defensive use, and Hunting.

The three rifles that I'm considering are the following:
Armalite Defender-10
Aero Precision M5E1
S&W M&P 10

There are two main issues, IMHO at least:

1) At this site there is a general expectation of ruggedness and high reliability, at least for any defensive use. I wouldn't expect truly good ruggedness and reliability from any of the three above. For example, the Armalite and S&W use clamp-on gas blocks, and I believe the Aero uses a set screw gas block. Adequate, but not rugged - you really want a pinned gas block to be rugged. Unknown small parts, unknown standards. None of those are terrible, but they aren't rugged, over-engineered and proven like you would get the LMT or KAC options - which cost much, much more. Even if the $1k options met OP's realistic desires, few if any here are going to endorse them.

2) Shooting 400-800M is more difficult than people expect if they don't have experience. Any of these will throw a bullet that far, but you probably want at least 2 MOA accuracy to be worth shooting for this purpose, with 1 MOA much more desirable (and much harder to achieve). With a better trigger, a rest, and match ammo, and a good shooter, you can maybe expect 2 MOA from the above. In comparison, for $400-500 you can buy various bolt action rifles that will shoot 2 MOA easily and can probably manage close to 1 MOA with match ammo (Federal GMM) or good handloads, without changing out parts. As an added hassle, all AR triggers have slower lock time than typical bolt gun triggers, and that plus a greater need for follow-through makes it harder to shoot an AR-10 style accurately.

After thinking about this a while, OP might want to look at the FNAR, which is a totally different rifle derived from the sporting (not M1918 military) "Browning Automatic Rifle". I wouldn't expect the ruggedness of something like an LMT, but it would offer accuracy and reliability out of the box for around $1k. Just look up the maintenance procedures before you buy one - the hour-plus field strip and reassembly time is why I sold mine.

[nick84]

OP said:




After thinking about this a while, OP might want to look at the FNAR, which is a totally different rifle derived from the sporting (not M1918 military) "Browning Automatic Rifle". I wouldn't expect the ruggedness of something like an LMT, but it would offer accuracy and reliability out of the box for around $1k. Just look up the maintenance procedures before you buy one - the hour-plus field strip and reassembly time is why I sold mine.

^ Same experience.

Ar-10 is a bigger commitment in dollars for quality than the little brother. When this question gets asked, it usually boils down to the same general answer: Get subpar or questionable now, or save pennies for something better later on. I think OP made a good decision in this case.

[if4not]

So is it just the Defender series that is considered a more recreational weapon or Armalites in general?