Learn me on plate carriers

[Defaultmp3]

Both plates are multi curve, both stop M855 and 7.62x39 MSC which are two of the three speciality threats that I'm primarily concerned with, however the ATP3 does not state that it is tested against M193, and from what I understand, just because a plate will stop M855 does not mean it will stop M193 correct?

Correct; for example, there are many AR500 plates that will stop M855 just fine, but will be defeated by M193 at close range and/or out of longer barrels (the velocity of the M193 allows it to punch through the alloy plates). However, as I had previously noted, the ATP3 is ceramic and UHMWPE hybrid plate; traditionally, UHMWPE has struggled against M855, but could defeat M193. Thus, while the ATP3 was not tested against M193, I would cautiously say that it would probably protect against M193. I'll also note that this is how unethical folks sell their armor, by proclaiming NIJ Level III status, and glossing over the fact that just because the plate can defeat M80, does not mean that it provides complete protection against the various 5.56×45mm threats.

I'll note a similar issue exists with the STOP-BZs (which are nothing more than rebranded TenCate 6400SA); it was not tested against 7.62×51mm NATO M80, so while I'd cautiously guess that it could probably defeat a couple rounds of M80, it remains a guess at best. To further muddy the waters, the Velocity Systems API-BZ Standalone plates are rated for M80 multi-hit, and are actually rebranded, modified variant of the TenCate 6400SA.

Note that if you're not worried about .308, the STOP plates are just a little more than the ATP3, are tested against M193, M855, and 7.62×39mm MSC, and are a fair bit thinner, at about the same weight.

I'd reach out to Mike and bounce any concerns you have off of him, just for peace of mind.

I'd also check up on First-Spear to see how much give their plate panels have, in case you're getting a 10"×12" plate; it'd also be good to make sure that the thickness of the ATP3 won't pose an issue, even if you're getting a SAPI sized one. Just due diligence stuff.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Correct; for example, there are many AR500 plates that will stop M855 just fine, but will be defeated by M193 at close range and/or out of longer barrels (the velocity of the M193 allows it to punch through the alloy plates). However, as I had previously noted, the ATP3 is ceramic and UHMWPE hybrid plate; traditionally, UHMWPE has struggled against M855, but could defeat M193. Thus, while the ATP3 was not tested against M193, I would cautiously say that it would probably protect against M193. I'll also note that this is how unethical folks sell their armor, by proclaiming NIJ Level III status, and glossing over the fact that just because the plate can defeat M80, does not mean that it provides complete protection against the various 5.56×45mm threats.

I remembered reading this, but had to go back over it as it can be rather confusing.

I'll note a similar issue exists with the STOP-BZs (which are nothing more than rebranded TenCate 6400SA); it was not tested against 7.62×51mm NATO M80, so while I'd cautiously guess that it could probably defeat a couple rounds of M80, it remains a guess at best. To further muddy the waters, the Velocity Systems API-BZ Standalone plates are rated for M80 multi-hit, and are actually rebranded, modified variant of the TenCate 6400SA.

Note that if you're not worried about .308, the STOP plates are just a little more than the ATP3, are tested against M193, M855, and 7.62×39mm MSC, and are a fair bit thinner, at about the same weight.

I'd reach out to Mike and bounce any concerns you have off of him, just for peace of mind.

I'd also check up on First-Spear to see how much give their plate panels have, in case you're getting a 10"×12" plate; it'd also be good to make sure that the thickness of the ATP3 won't pose an issue, even if you're getting a SAPI sized one. Just due diligence stuff.

I'll def reach out to Mike before I place my order. I wouldn't say that .308 isn't a concern but it's less of a concern than M855, M193 and 7.62x39 MSC. Going off what I've seen on the job, and seen when I worked at a large firearms retailer in the area; the rifles potentially shitty people generally purchased (in order of commonality) were 5.56mm Nato, 7.62x39mm, 7.62x54R and .308 WIN/7.62 NATO being a very distant second. I work and live in a large county that encompasses both urban, suburban and rural areas. Depending on where the response takes place, and the likely scenario, responding personnel could face anything from 5.56 NATO to high power hunting rounds like .308, 30-06, .270 etc. Obviously, the odds of encountering an adversary with a .270 win is statistically much smaller than a 5.56, however, the possibility remains... If you're responding to an active shooter in an urban part of the county, the likely threat is going to be common handgun rounds, shitty .223 ball, M193, M855 and shitty steel cased 7.62x39. If you're responding to a call out in BFE whitetrashville or the trailer park, there is of course the overwhelming possibility that you will encounter all of the aforementioned threats as well as a good chance of encountering some 7.62x54R fired from a Mosin variant. it seems like the firepower of choice for shitty people are generally cheap AR's, cheap AK's, SKS's, M44's and cheap scatterguns.

Like most things in this industry, though, body armor is about compromise and mitigating the odds of you becoming less alive. The best solution is obviously to not get shot.

[Dave L.]

I'm a huge fan of the JPC and JPC 2.0. Been using the basic JPC for 4 years and just got into a 2.0. I wear these overseas. I'm 5'11'', 205 and I have SAPI size Medium VS API-BZ plates with VS soft armor backers.

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My HD rig is a Mayflower Low-pro Assault Carrier with VS Kevlar soft armor and Ceradyne III/IV ICW multi-hit plates (Sized Large- since I would be playing defense).

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I also own a Paraclete SOHP, Deliberate Dynamics VS ULV PC, Crye AVS, MARZ PC, BFG LMAC, BFG Plate Minus, VS LWPC, and probably some more I forgot about.

I really like the mobility of a PC, but as stated earlier, I want a little more coverage in a HD scenario.

I recommend going with a SAPI-cut carrier and getting a SAPI-cut plate. The 10X12 stuff is all non-standard. You will end up with a plate that shifts inside the carrier. I've never used Swimmer-cut plates and haven't felt the need to try but your body style may vary.

I recommend Crye, Mayflower, Velocity Systems, and the Deliberate Dynamics low-pro. I do not recommend Blue Force Gear Plate Carriers, at least from my experience with the 1st gen LMAC (not a fan) and the Plate Minus (which is ok for thin steel plates).

Good luck.
Dave

[Turnkey11]

I'm now eyeballing the First Spear AAC. It looks like a good PC and the fact the First Spear is apparently the old Eagle crew makes me warm and fuzzy.

It states in the description that it is for Swimmer Cut or ESAPI/Spear Cut ballistic plates. My understanding is that swimmer cut and ESAPI/SPEAR are completely different cuts. Does that mean that this carrier will accept both Swimmer and ESAPI? Is ESAPI and SPEAR the same cut?

What are some trusted brands and vendors of Level III standalone plates? From the research I've done it should probably be a special threat plate as well as steel core 7.62 and M855 abounds. I feel like the odds of encountering M855 by chance are overwhelming good as anyone who is going to walk into a gun shop and buy 5.56 has fairly good odds of picking up M855 without even knowing what it is.


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Ive been using First Spear products since they opened shop, Im on my 3rd armor carrier and just picked up a STT plate carrier during SKD's presidential "grab'em by the p*ssy" sale. The only time I have gotten the 6/12 slots to fail were when I got hung up jumping out of a truck, or crossing a fence and getting unstuck the wrong way. Medium ESAPIs are very snug in both carriers, I have no experience with swimmer cut or 10x12s to comment on either.

[Instaurator]

Mayflower APC and SKD Pig are both great. The Pig is the most comfortable PC I've ever worn.

[pag23]

Question...how is the SKD Paraclete that is advertised on their site? I am not LE or Mil...but want to take some classes and some require body armor.

[Dave L.]

Question...how is the SKD Paraclete that is advertised on their site? I am not LE or Mil...but want to take some classes and some require body armor.

What classes specifically?

I have the original Paraclete SOHPC, it was issued to me around 2011 I believe. I had also started wearing the Crye JPC around the same time and never really gravitated toward the SOHPC.

The SKD/SOHPC will be a good quality carrier and good value. It comes with SKD's pontoon pads which I've never used, but I'm not a fan of any padding that makes the armor push further away from my body. I prefer minimalist carriers that keep the armor tight to my body and therefore give me the lowest profile as possible.

Last year I was issued the entire Crye AVS kit and while it's a great kit, and probably the most comfortable assaulter's kit on the market, It made my maneuverability become slightly handicapped. The AVS has an internal harness which is nearly an inch thick. I'm not sure how thick the Pontoons on the SKD/Paraclete are but at least they are removable.

For reference, I'm 5'11'' 210, 34" waist- I wear size Medium Plates.

Dave

[pag23]

What classes specifically?

I have the original Paraclete SOHPC, it was issued to me around 2011 I believe. I had also started wearing the Crye JPC around the same time and never really gravitated toward the SOHPC.

The SKD/SOHPC will be a good quality carrier and good value. It comes with SKD's pontoon pads which I've never used, but I'm not a fan of any padding that makes the armor push further away from my body. I prefer minimalist carriers that keep the armor tight to my body and therefore give me the lowest profile as possible.

Last year I was issued the entire Crye AVS kit and while it's a great kit, and probably the most comfortable assaulter's kit on the market, It made my maneuverability become slightly handicapped. The AVS has an internal harness which is nearly an inch thick. I'm not sure how thick the Pontoons on the SKD/Paraclete are but at least they are removable.

For reference, I'm 5'11'' 210, 34" waist- I wear size Medium Plates.

Dave

Rockwell Tactical is local to me in PA and run by a few former US Special Forces. I would like to pursue a class by Haley and Pat McNamara.. just to name a few but I am not sure if they run armor in there classes or just PC or chest rigs...

I am 6ft 225-230 (I need to drop a good 20-30 lbs.. and yes I am working on it)

Thanks for the feedback.. now I have to check out your website....

[Dave L.]

Thanks man.

If you are just starting out with armor and want to get into a plate carrier, get a nice carrier and steel plates. They are great for flat-range training and can take lots of abuse. Then when you want to do some dynamic CQB classes, get a pair of ceramic/composite plates, they will be lighter and offer more protection.
Otherwise, just start with a chest rig and work your way up.

I carry steel plates in my vehicle when I'm in the US for a few reasons, they wont degrade when I hit every pothole in the road, they are concealable, and most threats would probably be pistol rounds.

My HD rig is the Mayflower rig posted above with Ceradyne III/IV ICW Multi-hit plates. Glad I didn't have to pay for those.

[Jormungandr]

A little late but I run a Shellback tactical banshee with RMA level 4 plates. They are multi hit m2ap 30.06 and weigh 6.9lbs each.