ISO Minimalist Rail with Ti Nut

[Pax]

Looking for a ~8" rail with the following requirements.

Will probably just end up doing a bit of simple machining on a 2A BL, but wanted to shoot the shit and see if y'all know of some obscure product I've not heard of.

1. Single Pic rail at 12 o'clock with only a few lugs at the very front and rear, as is becoming standard. Not sure what we're calling this design, if anything yet. "Good?" I have no use for any other mounting points. I use no cool guy laser aiming modules or novelty rail covers. For this same reason, I could not care less if it's KeyMod or M-Lok. I suppose KeyMod seems to aggravate pedants for some reason, so I'll give preference to that. I need two lugs, tops at the rear to index off the receiver when mounting and about seven or so up front for an S&S IFM Cam and Griffin offsets. Any rail in this market will have a QD socket so a rail mounted sling mount would be unnecessary weight. Much as I love my old school ITW MASH hooks on a Magpul RSA, bombproof as it is with no moving parts, QD sockets do seem to be amply proven at this point, so I should probably join that bandwagon. I will probably machine the middle lugs off a 2A BL as I've seen done with several rails because nobody seems to make a rail like this with an incomplete top rail and a Ti barrel nut. Speaking of...

2. 6Al-4V/Gr 5 Ti barrel nut, any heat treat process acceptable. I am aware that many companies make rails such as I am looking for- but with Aluminum barrel nuts. I've seen enough Al failures and had enough personally that cost me a pretty penny to know homie don't play dat shit. I believe it is hardly mall ninja or obsessive to insist on Ti for this component. It fits the bill very perfectly, even considering varying coefficients of expansion. I don't mean to repeatedly shill 2A, but considering their prices, Ti is not even more expensive a material choice. Like. At all. I have used V7s MilSpec Ti nut with no issues to report, so I understand I could use that with a compatible rail with incomplete top rail... but I don't think anyone makes one and it will be cheaper for me to simply machine a 2A BL than to combine the V7 nut and someone else's rail. A KMR Alpha with a full V7 kit is attractive in this route, but again... why bother when 2A will do the same for less money? Maybe some money in tooling should be considered... but still not as much. And 6061 machines like butter. I'll probably just do a series of holes along the top, I've seen M-Lok slots but... seems like a little more trouble than it's worth considering as I'll never use them.

Those are the only real requirements, though clamping attachment would be preferred to screws that mount radially to the bore. Not thrilled about how the 2A design depends vitally on tiny 6061 threads. But. Haven't heard of a failure yet. Intruigued by MEGAs Wedge Lock, but the weight and expense are absurd when taken together, especially in light of significantly cheaper and lighter competition... 2A. Would be interested in the MEGA if they can offer a Ti barrel nut and get the weight competitive. An extra sixty bucks or so is fine... but I want to get something more than clout for my money. Naturally, all this assumes the veracity of manufacturer quoted weights...

Things I am aware of with incomplete top rails and still not interested in for the above reasons:
SLR
Midwest
Fortis
ALG

So... Have I missed someone? Incomplete top rail with Ti nut from the factory.. Anyone?

Not interested in Carbon at this time. AP Customs and Lancer are both heavier than Aluminum and a top rail that mounts through Carbon doesn't appeal to me, for durability and accuracy reasons. I may never use BUIS, but I'd still expect them to be accurate and easily take a beating. That's all they're there for.

To be honest, I'm surprised that 2A doesn't offer such a product. They're clearly obsessive about weight savings and more than well equipped enough to produce that. I'll probably buy a BL and then they'll announce it the next month.

[Defaultmp3]

I'll note that the WedgeLock already utilizes a titanium barrel nut. The design principle behind the WedgeLock did not have weight as being a very high priority, compared to other issues (handguard deflection, durability, etc.).

I'll also note that the Geissele handguards use a 7075 barrel nut, so the material itself on the barrel nut isn't a huge deal, IMO, compared to design. Just a thought is all. What issues have you had with 7075 failures?

Beyond that, I do not know of any handguards that fulfill your criterion.

[D_M]

1. You don't need a Titanium barrel nut.
2. Please provide examples of Aluminum barrel nut failures, where the barrel nut was properly installed.
3. If stress is high enough to destroy an aluminum barrel nut, a titanium nut will now transfer the stress to the aluminum upper receiver.
4. Geissele makes a near bombproof handguard.

[Pax]

Oh. Didn't know the WedgeLock used a Ti nut. Cool. Thanks. Well. Seems a bit like they literally weighed down an innovative attachment method with the presumption that it would be used exclusively by folks who prioritized zero deflection. But. That's always the trade off I suppose.

Didn't mean for this to turn into another "justify such and such materials use in such and such an application" thread, but as I said I'm happy to shoot the shit and I guess this was destined to go there.

I appreciate that I *probably* do not need a Ti barrel nut. I appreciate that many big name companies who presumably spend considerable amounts of money on research and development by people who have extensive and expensive mechanical engineering degrees use 7075 barrel nuts and I will readily admit that I don't have a single even poorly documented case of one failing. My preference to Ti parts in general was developed working a few years as a bicycle mechanic where I regularly saw all Aluminum alloys under the sun fail in exasperating and costly ways. I agree that, since I will not be frequently changing barrels, thread stretch on the softer material should be a non-issue, although the simpleton in me who prefers to overbuild certain linchpins just isn't happy with the idea of at least 30 ft.-lbs. on a piece of 7075 a few millimeters thick. Sorry dude.

The idea that any force in excess of a 7075 nuts strength must also be in excess of the receiver's thread strength is an interesting one. I imagine any difference in material strength due to forging vs billet is minute and wall thickness is pretty darn close too, admittedly. Convincing. Clearly the rational course of action is to buy titanium receivers. ...kidding. It's a seemingly valid idea, they should be of comparable strength. That said... There is either no or very marginal increase in cost and weight to jump up to Ti and rest assured that its far less likely to crack one day. I appreciate that it's overkill, a bit trite and I appreciate you trying to explain that. But I'm set on Ti for this component.

[GH41]

Either the KMR or Bootleg handguard with a v7 barrel nut.

[D_M]

Oh. Didn't know the WedgeLock used a Ti nut. Cool. Thanks. Well. Seems a bit like they literally weighed down an innovative attachment method with the presumption that it would be used exclusively by folks who prioritized zero deflection. But. That's always the trade off I suppose.

Didn't mean for this to turn into another "justify such and such materials use in such and such an application" thread, but as I said I'm happy to shoot the shit and I guess this was destined to go there.

I appreciate that I *probably* do not need a Ti barrel nut. I appreciate that many big name companies who presumably spend considerable amounts of money on research and development by people who have extensive and expensive mechanical engineering degrees use 7075 barrel nuts and I will readily admit that I don't have a single even poorly documented case of one failing. My preference to Ti parts in general was developed working a few years as a bicycle mechanic where I regularly saw all Aluminum alloys under the sun fail in exasperating and costly ways. I agree that, since I will not be frequently changing barrels, thread stretch on the softer material should be a non-issue, although the simpleton in me who prefers to overbuild certain linchpins just isn't happy with the idea of at least 30 ft.-lbs. on a piece of 7075 a few millimeters thick. Sorry dude.

The idea that any force in excess of a 7075 nuts strength must also be in excess of the receiver's thread strength is an interesting one. I imagine any difference in material strength due to forging vs billet is minute and wall thickness is pretty darn close too, admittedly. Convincing. Clearly the rational course of action is to buy titanium receivers. ...kidding. It's a seemingly valid idea, they should be of comparable strength. That said... There is either no or very marginal increase in cost and weight to jump up to Ti and rest assured that its far less likely to crack one day. I appreciate that it's overkill, a bit trite and I appreciate you trying to explain that. But I'm set on Ti for this component.

It would behoove you to edit your original post to reflect that this is a 'want' and not a 'need' thread.

You are limited greatly by choosing a Ti barrel nut. Good luck in your search, but understand that you are passing on proven handguard systems in lieu of an answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

[Zirk208]

Either the KMR or Bootleg handguard with a v7 barrel nut.

This was my first thought.

[Pax]

You are limited greatly by choosing a Ti barrel nut. Good luck in your search, but understand that you are passing on proven handguard systems in lieu of an answer to a problem that doesn't exist.

Noted.