PSA 20" Freedom Kit review pre-shooting

**C4IGrant** · 02-26-17, 19:19

Originally Posted by Stickman

I don't think anyone here believes that everything PSA makes is utter garbage. The issue most posters have is they do not sell a known good product with any form of regularity.

I own an Olympic Arms that is wonderfully reliable. A fellow instructor had an Olympic Arms which he had over 80k through with his SS barrel and it still grouped well enough. I pulled it from service due to the barrel extension peening, OA replaced the entire URG for him. Two wonderful examples does not mean OA put out a fantastic product. OA manufactured their own products and were able to determine the level of QC. Based on PSA accepting rejects and reselling them, and their lack of manufacturing, I place them below OA.

It is common for people to attempt to justify their "nicer" purchases from an emotional attachment. However, when you find knowledgeable detached professionals with no personal skin in the game with continual negative experiences, it takes that same emotional attachment to attempt to justify their brand being as good as others.

There is a mod on here that has a BM carbine that just runs. High round count. The joke in our training circle was that he needed to buy a lotto ticket. :-)

What is old is now new again (just he names change). For as long as I have been into AR's, the BM/RRA/DPMS/Oly crowd has always tried to make the case that those AR's were as good as Colt (as none of the current "popular" brands even existed then). I still remember the day when LMT came online for dealer sales and we had another option besides Colt! We were thrilled to say the least.

The part that the BM/RRA/DPMS crowd could never wrap their heads around was that building to a set standard (TDP) cost more money than building to the standard that put the most money in the manufacturers pocket. That QC departments were/are expensive. Rejecting parts because they did not meet the drawing costs money. Seems like that memo has been lost again...

C4

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**C4IGrant** · 02-26-17, 19:28

Originally Posted by JC5188

You continually bring up the expanse. That rifle was nearly universally panned here, and Colt excoriated for putting out "garbage". I don't know why you keep mentioning it like it gets a pass. It does not.

I know this, because I was one of a (very) few that defended Colt for putting it out as an entry level rifle.

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The Expanse II was built strictly to compete against the M&P sport II (a very good seller for S&W). So I understand why they did it and to my knowledge, they have worked out well (read limited issues). Is that gun remotely equal to a 6920? No. Does it get Colt into a new (budget minded) AR shooter? Yes. Just like the S&W SD VE got them into a new market. Does S&W LE recommend (or even allow) this gun to be sold to LE for duty use? No. Same goes for Colt. They don't recommend the Expanse for LE use.

C4

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**C4IGrant** · 02-26-17, 19:29

Originally Posted by SupraT

I have a few PSA branded Microbest bolt carrier groups that work without issue. I doubt I will ever have a problem with them compared to some of my "nicer" ones.

As a long standing MB dealer, do you realize that you can get different grades of BCG's out of them??

C4

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**JC5188** · 02-26-17, 19:46

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

The Expanse II was built strictly to compete against the M&P sport II (a very good seller for S&W). So I understand why they did it and to my knowledge, they have worked out well (read limited issues). Is that gun remotely equal to a 6920? No. Does it get Colt into a new (budget minded) AR shooter? Yes. Just like the S&W SD VE got them into a new market. Does S&W LE recommend (or even allow) this gun to be sold to LE for duty use? No. Same goes for Colt. They don't recommend the Expanse for LE use.

C4

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Exactly. Completely agree. That's why I defended their decision to put that rifle out. I never understood the "watered down the brand" arguments, but we damned sure had them.

My 6920 doesn't seem to have suffered any.

ETA...

To your point, I have a 40VE that is responsible for my buying every pistol in my safe. 9 including "cowboy" guns. I wasn't a pistol guy until I received that one as a gift. Took my CC class/test with it. I don't shoot it anymore, but I'll never sell it.

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**C4IGrant** · 02-26-17, 19:48

Originally Posted by JC5188

Exactly. Completely agree. That's why I defended their decision to put that rifle out. I never understood the "watered down the brand" arguments, but we damned sure had them.

My 6920 doesn't seem to have suffered any.

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No, it hasn't affected sales for me at least. My customer base tends to be higher end and more educated though so I rarely get requests for them.

C4

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**SupraT** · 02-26-17, 20:09

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

As a long standing MB dealer, do you realize that you can get different grades of BCG's out of them??

C4

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It has the same specs and testing as my Colt BCGs. One of them has survived thousands of rounds of full auto fire only. I think it will continue working just fine. I wouldn't have bought them had I not seen the box they came out of.

**C4IGrant** · 02-26-17, 20:41

Originally Posted by SupraT

It has the same specs and testing as my Colt BCGs. One of them has survived thousands of rounds of full auto fire only. I think it will continue working just fine. I wouldn't have bought them had I not seen the box they came out of.

It could be and no one was telling you to stop using it. ;-)
What box something came out of though does not guarantee what was done to it. It all depends on how it was ordered. Commonly, MB BATCH HPT and MPI UNLESS the buyer specifies differently.
Personally, I am not a fan of the manufacturer handling the MPI process. Kind of like asking the fox to watch the hen house. YMMV.

C4

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**Locutus** · 02-27-17, 04:41

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

It could be and no one was telling you to stop using it. ;-)
What box something came out of though does not guarantee what was done to it. It all depends on how it was ordered. Commonly, MB BATCH HPT and MPI UNLESS the buyer specifies differently.
Personally, I am not a fan of the manufacturer handling the MPI process. Kind of like asking the fox to watch the hen house. YMMV.

If I might ask, who does the MPI testing for Colt?

**MistWolf** · 02-27-17, 10:43

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

Personally, I am not a fan of the manufacturer handling the MPI process. Kind of like asking the fox to watch the hen house

If a company is unethical, having an outside vendor performing MPI won't change a thing

**C4IGrant** · 02-27-17, 10:54

Originally Posted by MistWolf

If a company is unethical, having an outside vendor performing MPI won't change a thing

True. I still remember when I caught a "lower quality" AR manufacturer lying about the barrel steel used. That destructive testing thing is a bitch. ;-)

C4