PSA 20" Freedom Kit review pre-shooting

[Iraqgunz]

You're always free to start PrevailFI.com or something else.

OP, when you have 4k+ rounds through 2 PSAs (4k each) and mention it here, you will be derided and your experience will be pigeonholed under "sample of one". When DD Fails the AK Operator's Union hard use test, but PSA passes, it will be ignored, mocked, or marginalized. I started a thread titled My PSA Journey in which I detailed my experience with two PSA rifles that I built as trunk guns. That became a shitshow. Since then I've started other threads detailing my experience with now 5 PSAs - always "careful" to throw the elitists the bone of "I own 2 Colt 6720s, a DD, a BCM, and a Noveske/BCM hybrid for go to rifles" - I was endlessly baited and had my words twisted and taken out of context. It's kind of like a game here. I suspect private messages go out to some people who don't have anything better to do then marginalize someone who's experienced is not what "They" want it to be. I'm retired LE and a former Lead FI and Dept. Armorer; they can all kiss my ass. Bottom line: they have a big financial stake in the game, or they are toadies and sycophants of those stake holders and website owners.

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[TexGuy]

I've always enjoyed their products and they shoot well.

[Jpoe88]

You're always free to start PrevailFI.com or something else.

It's funny how my perspective has changed. I don't hide what I run, but I know guys here don't not buy into the stuff. Why show case it? It's for me and not you. They never have and never will. These topics do not go over well here. I don't believe it's the product that has caused the issue. I believe it's the stigma that comes with lower priced rifles. The tacticool mall ninja with a RDs on 45* and vfg on the left side of the rail.


No one here wants to deal with someone like that. Either grow thicker skin, or bounce.

[Hank6046]

I feel like this argument continues and I constantly shake my head. I worked in a shooting range and gun store for 2 years. I watched quite a lot of guns fail. 90% of the AR's failed simply because of improper lubrication or magazine related issues. This was the same when I was a rifle coach in the Marine Corps ( for only 5-6 months). The 10% of failures is made in quality controls. This again is something I'd like to think I know well as a Quality Assurance guy with a large hydraulic test manufacture. While I don't know everything about quality manufacturing processes in all firearms manufactures, I definitely understand that the more resources and attention given to quality, the better the result. Of course materials in manufacturing most assuredly help in the quality of a product. However, their will always be lemons and their will always be exceptions to the rule just based statistical outliers. I own PSA products and I like them, but there have been inconsistencies with in the products I have ordered, the same is true with my Daniel Defense. I don't have a problem with someone buying a PSA anything, just understand that they shouldn't have a problem with someone purchasing a BCM, DD, Colt, Knights, Noveske etc. Most often you do get what you pay for, sometimes you do not. I hope that people understand that purchase should justify the use and that the use should justify the purchase. You want to trust your life in combat to a weapon use a weapon used in combat, you want to use your rifle for home defense, then I can only imagine that a AR stuck in a case at room temp will preform better than that of one put under the stresses of combat. The end point is that your arguing about brand when you are thinking about use and purpose. We are all on the same side as AR guys, lets have a real discussion of why and how we use are AR's and see if that has a bearing on purchase decision.

[C4IGrant]

OP, when you have 4k+ rounds through 2 PSAs (4k each) and mention it here, you will be derided and your experience will be pigeonholed under "sample of one". When DD Fails the AK Operator's Union hard use test, but PSA passes, it will be ignored, mocked, or marginalized. I started a thread titled My PSA Journey in which I detailed my experience with two PSA rifles that I built as trunk guns. That became a shitshow. Since then I've started other threads detailing my experience with now 5 PSAs - always "careful" to throw the elitists the bone of "I own 2 Colt 6720s, a DD, a BCM, and a Noveske/BCM hybrid for go to rifles" - I was endlessly baited and had my words twisted and taken out of context. It's kind of like a game here. I suspect private messages go out to some people who don't have anything better to do then marginalize someone who's experienced is not what "They" want it to be. I'm retired LE and a former Lead FI and Dept. Armorer; they can all kiss my ass. Bottom line: they have a big financial stake in the game, or they are toadies and sycophants of those stake holders and website owners.

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I have learned over the years that you cannot change peoples political/religious views and you cannot fix stupid. Personally, I don't care what people to like buy and shoot. I do "hope" that if they are saving money on a firearm that doesn't (at least) meet the TDP that they are rolling that money into training, quality optics/lights and ammo so they can better defend themselves and learn how to properly shoot.

I think it is true that more and more entry level (cheap) AR's are raising their quality. Parts that we saw in the late 90's and early 2000's are much different than what is out today. So it is entirely possible to get an AR that will run (for the majority of the shooting public). So why are some brands more money than others? From what I have learned over my many years in the firearms industry is that it is expensive to have standards. Meaning, having jigs that cost $10k to check internal and external specs. To quarentine parts coming in until they are thoroughly validated as meeting the companies standards. To have a training program so that all the armorers build the AR the same way (and to a set standard). An actual QC/QA department. One manufacturer said to me once that they spend more on QC than most companies have in their AR!

So does any of the above matter? Depends. Some people know enough about what to look for that they can do their own QC. They also know how to properly assemble an AR (thanks to Colt in your instance). Others have no idea what they are looking at and don't know how to assemble an AR. For those folks, I strongly recommend Colt, BCM, KAC, Noveske, DD, etc. Not only are these AR's made with quality components and assembled correctly, they are recognized name brands standing for quality and WILL hold their value.

Little background for you about M4C. It was started for two main reasons. First was to disseminate correct and honest information about what is quality and what isn't in the AR15 world. This is why you see professional armorers, industry professionals, LE, Military and high end enthuists as the mods, staff and owner. The second reason was to promote training. People have often used the term "elitist" to describe M4C.com. With one of the most common guns recommended on here (Colt LE6920-OEM) being in the $700 range that label really doesn't apply. So to be clear, your opinion is more than welcome on this forum. Realize though that promoting companies that do not have the long history of quality (over thousands and thousands of firearms) are going to be scrutinized and or argued against. If you are looking for a group of people that will accept whatever low end brand you like, I would recommends some other forums like ARFCOM, GlockTalk, etc. Not all forum are for everyone and sometimes you need to move onto a place that is a better fit. Whether that makes M4C "elitist" or not I don't know, but is the truth and what we are about.

As a fan of putting things in context, what low end pistol would you accept for duty use? If Glock is the standard (at $425 for blue label) that means that we would need to look at pistols in the $200-$250 range. Which one would you bet your life on? A SCCY pistol? How about a Kel-Tec?? No you say? You elitist pig! ;-)



C4

[6933]

former Lead FI and Dept. Armorer; they can all kiss my ass. Bottom line: they have a big financial stake in the game, or they are toadies and sycophants of those stake holders and website owners.

And plenty of us know that there are many, many in LE; and specifically FI's and Armorers that simply don't know nearly as much as they think. Just who is case in point?

Sycophants? Describes yourself. Don't give a shit if you are LE, a LE Armorer, whatever. The manner you have conducted yourself and the opinions you have expressed have placed you squarely in the "LE guy who thinks he knows it all but in reality has no clue how far he has to go so let's ignore him" category.

[PrevailFI]

And plenty of us know that there are many, many in LE; and specifically FI's and Armorers that simply don't know nearly as much as they think. Just who is case in point?

Sycophants? Describes yourself. Don't give a shit if you are LE, a LE Armorer, whatever. The manner you have conducted yourself and the opinions you have expressed have placed you squarely in the "LE guy who thinks he knows it all but in reality has no clue how far he has to go so let's ignore him" category.

<spits> Now, you run and play while the men-folk are talking, sonny.

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[DragonDoc]

Stickman, do you mean that PSA uses inferior parts?

Just understand that PSA's contract with its suppliers may not call for stringent quality assurance and quality control. Magnetic particle Inspections and high pressure testing may be conducted in batches. You also don't know that composition of the steel that was used for the bolt and the barrel. Was pot metal used for the pins? These are just a few questions that you have to ask yourself. PSA has to reach a price point where they can turn a profit. It looks like they are going for volume sales to get to the promised land. The question is what cost saving measures have they implemented to drive down their price point to garner mass sales? I think that PSA is fine for a hobby gun or the occasional match. I don't think they have reached the professional grade plateau. What you should do is shoot this ish out of your rig with the intention to run it to failure. Then report back how much abuse your sample took before it failed, as well as, the type of failure that occurred. This will help the rest of us get a baseline of how much performance we can expect from PSA complete rifles and builds. So buy some rounds and run it like you stole it.

As an aside, I just purchased two 16" M4 Carbine Length 5.56 NATO 1:7 Nitride Freedom Rifle Kits as gifts for my nephews. The uppers will reside on Anderson lowers and I an sure that my nephews will appreciate the rifles. These are intended to be used as learner/hobby guns. Let them learn to shoot, maybe take a few classes, and otherwise get a toehold into the modern sporting rifle world. I figure if it is acceptable to not roll out a Bentley or Ferrari for driver's then I'm not gifting Colts, BCM, DDs, Noveskes, or LMTs as Christmas gifts. So PSA does have a place in the AR world as long as you understand you get what you pay for.

[Eurodriver]

Doc. Cut that logic shit out.

We are talking to people who shoot at BG targets with their stocks fully extended at 25 yard indoor ranges and brag about their six mediocre $600 guns but scoff at buying two quality $1800 guns.

Let them get PSA. I used to not care because I thought they all figure out sooner or later. I would think that when they add a suppressor or run a high count class and their weapon sees downtime they'll come around.

But I've learned these types don't run cans. They don't take classes. And They sure as shit don't shoot a thousand rounds through their guns in one night while it's covered in mud under NODs during a hurricane. That's why they don't have issues.

Enjoy your PSA OP. It will do great things for your needs.

[DragonDoc]

When I went into harms way I never doubted that my rifle would work. The only failures were either operator or magazine. You would be surprised how easy it is to forget to send the bolt forward when you reload during a CQB situation. Thank God it was only MILES gear training. Magazine failure occured at a range in Mosul. My MITT team had a range and a few thousand of rounds laying around. I was bored so I figured I would do some shooting (Docs rarely get to shoot on the two way firing range). Took a mag from my left leg drop down mag pouch and quickly learned that the gun truck door had fracked that mag up. Nice dent in the middle of the mag. It feed 10 rounds the malf'ed on me. Another lesson learned (thankful in a noncombat situation). I say whip that PSA out and run that shitze hard. Take classes, run tactical drills, and shoot some competitions so you can see how your choice of gear functions under stress. Take all those lessons learned and use that knowledge to make sound decisions about your next rifle and associated kit. Time to face facts OP. Your PSA rifle will not be your last rifle. You will have ample opportunity to have a sample of one from all the major brands.