PSA 20" Freedom Kit review pre-shooting

[JC5188]

The signal to noise ratio is still fairly low here, compared to other places.

I think that if the owner(s) of the forum wanted an exclusive club they would have a vetting process and structure things differently to limit 'the special snowflakes who don't understand the 'purpose of this forum.'

The fact of the matter is that servers cost money to operate and vBulletin doesn't give away their product, so the owner(s) of this site have chosen to sell ads and accept paid membership.

Whether the forum began from an altruistic perspective - 'we need to tell more folks about the nuances of the M4 platform' - or from a marketing perspective - 'if I start a rifle forum I can sell more weapon lube' - or from a profit motive - 'I can make money running a forum' - isn't really the issue. The issue is that in order to keep the doors open their needs to be a bunch of members, who hopefully will patronize the advertisers. In terms of that, althgough I cant speak for them, I would imagine Faxon Barrels' target audience is not the guy that just bought a rifle from BCM, KAC, LaRue, Noveske, etc.

Getting to the thrust of your post, 'geared towards professionals' could we define professional? I'm kind of confused about what professional means in terms of forum participation.

Does it mean someone who is paid to carry a weapon? Most of those guys take what is given to them. Does it mean someone who makes their way teaching weapons? I don't know of any who would refuse to accept a Bushmaster or PSA in a course. Do you have to be prior service to be a professional? If so what service? Does the Coast Guard make the cut? One term enlistee, or career? Does it mean you own a plate carrier, helmet with team wendy suspension and coms? Is it someone who has attended a high-round count rifle or pistol class? Or, is the criteria simpler, someone who thinks the way the someone else does?

These are things I am unsure about. I need to know where I fit in.

In the words of J Santoro (paraphrasing), "It's not so much 'professional use' guns, as it is 'professional grade'".

I know you were asking rhetorically, but he reconciled that question about professional use in another thread.


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[Kain]

Man I remember when I first joined this forum and I loved how it was different than the fudd forums. It wasn't happy go feely everyone's gun is cool and look at the glossy finish. It was a forum geared towards professionals. It was a no nonsense place where dumb shit got called out.

Im not saying this forum isnt that anymore. But I feel we have had an invasion of special snowflakes who don't understand the "purpose" of this forum.

The shooting community is growing. Especially the demographic that is comfortable or even proficient with computers. So the evolution you might see is the same shit but now being broadcasted all over the internet opposed to getting trapped in the gunclub bar or gunstore because the speakers now know what to do with a computer. The Stenguy comments a number of months back should be a good example of that, shit that we normally expect to hear at the gunstore counter. Now, in some ways access to the forums and the knowledge within is a great thing if the person is willing to read, dig, and listen and use some common sense and think. That fact that we do generally require members to do some thinking in figuring out their needs, priorities, budget, and skill sets is a hell of a lot more than most forums out there who will basically tell members, buy a rifle, buy an optic, buy some ammo and they are Zeall Team 62 Ninja Operators. Yes there are others out there that try to lead people to the water's of truth and being proficient most don't seem to care. It barcounter bullshit. I have stopped frequenting other forums because no matter how much I tried to educate people guys would ask what is a good AR. You'd get the first couple posts telling them to get an AK. you'd often get a guy telling him to get a 12 gauge because a rifle is useless. Then you'd get the people screaming that ARs are unreliable, jamamatics, can't run a 100 rounds without jamming I'd post Filthy 14 and the tens of thousands of rounds that it ran. I'd then have assholes say outright, "I'm not reading anything that long, I'm right, Whoever wrote the article is wrong no AR can run more than 100 rounds without jamming, he is lying.... ect, ect, ect buy an AK." Finally you'd get someone come in and recommend the cheapest POS AR you could find because they are all the same. Prior to PSA I'd hear DPMS is quality because the SEALs or Delta use them because Colt is crap but never got an explanation from anyone how Colt AR are crap other than they jammed in Nam and no one had any direct source that DPMS was being used other than "I know because I got clearance and that is all I can say. Bullshit. I'd try to get more details from the OP for needs, budget, ect. I also got to the point of breaking down some basics of what to look for in a quality rifle, brands, other things. Sometimes I'd get through the OP, sometime I wouldn't. They a few days later someone else would post the same question and it would go through all again. Also, somethings that I will say about here is that is someone asks about defensive ammo you at least get a solid proven answers and then links on where to get the ammo as good prices opposed to my most recent experience with a guy asking for options for a defensive loading for a .38SPC J frame. First response went along the lines of get rid of the POS .38 and get a 44 mag cuz a .38 will just piss them off. Next was a guy telling him to get a .22 because the rounds go in and bounce around and that they are a guaranteed kill. Next you get a guy telling him that modern defensive ammo is overpriced shit that doesn't work. That the only round that is worth carrying for defensive is handloaded wadcutter with the round loaded backwards. I post link to a few options, Golddot for example. Get guys complaining that they can't or won't pay $30 for a box of 50 tested loads. I politely ask how much is your life worth? I get ignored. I then come back here.

Short point is the noise here is pretty low and the ones who do get going usually are more entertainment than anything.

[williejc]

I lack the skills to build an AR. If I could and did build one, I'd be proud of it. Sometimes people become defensive when they have invested time and effort in a building product. On the other hand, we aren't the most gentle critics either. I read and studied here a very long time before I really understood the difference between top and second tier ARs.

[556BlackRifle]

I stayed away from this thread because the OP was either trolling or looking for self validation - neither of which interest me. This morning I skimmed through the parts I hadn't read and my original impressions were correct. I'm sure the OP has posted here before under another handle and I'm sure he'll be back again posting the same drivel.

[SeriousStudent]

I was hoping to read about the OP actually shooting this thing and giving a semi-detailed report. It seemed he was a little too emotionally invested in the PSA rifle because after his first range report, he couldn't get off his high horse. I'd be really interested in some long term testing of the budget ARs. I still probably wouldn't buy them but it would give me data to make recommendations on if I was asked by someone unwilling to spend Colt money. For the most part, we do have those people in our lives. Oh well.

Something like that is coming. I'm buying a PSA 16" carbine and a Colt 6920, set up with the same mags, 5.56 ammo lot numbers and lube, and I'm going to shoot them under the same conditions until the first one breaks. I'll ask two different armorers to check them before and after.

Iraqgunz and I talked about doing that in his AR Armorer class a few weeks ago. It will take me a while to set up and conduct, I want to film it, record data, etc.

I know it will be a sample of one for each maker, but so is everyone who posts "my ar is teh shizznit!"

[C-grunt]

The signal to noise ratio is still fairly low here, compared to other places.

I think that if the owner(s) of the forum wanted an exclusive club they would have a vetting process and structure things differently to limit 'the special snowflakes who don't understand the 'purpose of this forum.'

The fact of the matter is that servers cost money to operate and vBulletin doesn't give away their product, so the owner(s) of this site have chosen to sell ads and accept paid membership.

Whether the forum began from an altruistic perspective - 'we need to tell more folks about the nuances of the M4 platform' - or from a marketing perspective - 'if I start a rifle forum I can sell more weapon lube' - or from a profit motive - 'I can make money running a forum' - isn't really the issue. The issue is that in order to keep the doors open their needs to be a bunch of members, who hopefully will patronize the advertisers. In terms of that, althgough I cant speak for them, I would imagine Faxon Barrels' target audience is not the guy that just bought a rifle from BCM, KAC, LaRue, Noveske, etc.

Getting to the thrust of your post, 'geared towards professionals' could we define professional? I'm kind of confused about what professional means in terms of forum participation.

Does it mean someone who is paid to carry a weapon? Most of those guys take what is given to them. Does it mean someone who makes their way teaching weapons? I don't know of any who would refuse to accept a Bushmaster or PSA in a course. Do you have to be prior service to be a professional? If so what service? Does the Coast Guard make the cut? One term enlistee, or career? Does it mean you own a plate carrier, helmet with team wendy suspension and coms? Is it someone who has attended a high-round count rifle or pistol class? Or, is the criteria simpler, someone who thinks the way the someone else does?

These are things I am unsure about. I need to know where I fit in.

I have no problem with new members coming to learn about the AR. We were all there once. Hell I used to own a couple Bushmasters and before I knew better I would have said they were just as good as Colt. It wasnt until I was stuck with one as a duty weapon that I realized there was a difference. Searching my issues was how I found this website. I came and I learned. Finding out that I was practically neighbors with IraqGunz probably helped the learning come faster than normal.

Also Im not saying that new members coming in here talking about subpar equipment is new. But it seems to me that the amount of new members who seem to be disregarding the info provided and pushing their beliefs and feelings without being able to back up their claims, has increased.

[yrch21]

Something like that is coming. I'm buying a PSA 16" carbine and a Colt 6920, set up with the same mags, 5.56 ammo lot numbers and lube, and I'm going to shoot them under the same conditions until the first one breaks. I'll ask two different armorers to check them before and after.

Iraqgunz and I talked about doing that in his AR Armorer class a few weeks ago. It will take me a while to set up and conduct, I want to film it, record data, etc.

I know it will be a sample of one for each maker, but so is everyone who posts "my ar is teh shizznit!"

Thank you in advance for this test. Are you looking to grab one of those CHF barreled ones in case anyone complains that you didn't use "top of the line" PSA build?
Thanks again and Merry Christmas!

[MistWolf]

Something like that is coming. I'm buying a PSA 16" carbine and a Colt 6920, set up with the same mags, 5.56 ammo lot numbers and lube, and I'm going to shoot them under the same conditions until the first one breaks. I'll ask two different armorers to check them before and after.

Iraqgunz and I talked about doing that in his AR Armorer class a few weeks ago. It will take me a while to set up and conduct, I want to film it, record data, etc.

I know it will be a sample of one for each maker, but so is everyone who posts "my ar is teh shizznit!"

I ran a PSA with a Wilson stainless steel middy barrel hard for 3000 rounds. I got the barrel so hot, it turned a bronze color. Short version, what failed was the extractor spring and somewhere along the way, I replaced the carbine buffer with an H buffer and replaced the action spring. I predict that's what will happen with the PSA in your test. The Wilson barrel did not seem to be over gassed.

I now have a Colt. I replaced the new 16" 6920 barrel with a 14.5" SOCOM barrel. I didn't get to shoot it side by side with the PSA, but the Colt seems to run smoother, which I attribute to the H buffer and better spring quality. We'll see how the Colt holds up after it's been shot some more, but I predict the springs will have better life than the PSA

[SeriousStudent]

Understood. I'm not planning on replacing any parts, or performing any adjustments prior to the shoot. Other than zeroing the sights, of course.

They will be "base carbines" from each maker. They will get inspected, lubed, sighted in, and shot. And shot. And shot.

Then inspected.

[heartbreakridge01]

I traded a PSA Freedom mid length upper built on an Anderson lower for a Yeti 160 cooler, I think I got the better end of the deal!

They seem like a good stepping stone to for someone learning or just getting into the AR platform. Although there is much better out there for a few more bucks.