Best pump shotgun for HD

[26 Inf]

because the AR15 carbine is simply more effective in the hands of an in-service trained cop.

Yep, give me four hours on shotgun and four hours with rifle - the rifle shooter will be more comfortable.

With a shotgun, the stock hits my cheek and the shot goes where I want it - with a bead sight; I'm slower with ghost ring and rifled sights on SG's because of the sights; I'm slower with the AR using a RDS simply because of more reps with the SG - you can't undo 30 years. That's first shot..split times, rifle, rifle, rifle.

[C4IGrant]

Since the pump SG mess has been covered, now for the dreaded comments from C4I that will for sure hurt some feelings (so brace yourself). ;-)

Follow the logic trail for a moment. If the pump SG is more MECHANICALLY reliable than an auto loading SG and the auto loading SG is more reliable under stress for the shooter, that pushes the SG down on the list of "best choices" for defensive purposes. Next logic bomb (which was covered by 26 Inf). The gun you grab in a stressful environment SHOULD BE the gun you log the most rounds with in a year (AKA practice with). So if that is your CCW pistol, then that is your best choice. If it is an an AR15, then that is your best option.

With the above out of the way, ballistically speaking, the 5.56 cartridge offers the most options. The AR also offers the ability to put the most rounds on target the fastest and gives you a lot more capacity onboard the weapon.


It is your life. Choose wisely.....



C4

[Firefly]

Actually, pumps and revolvers have a lot in common.

Both are recommended to neophytes for their "simplicity" yet both are hardest to to do remedial action drills with.

Pumps can jam. Without practiced, rehearsed clearance drills; it can become unuseable.

I would almost recommend a coach gun over a pump.

An autoloader is much better with proper ammo and training. Shotguns do have a place in LE and will for some time to come though as a patrol longarm, I agree it has been eclipsed by the carbine.

The sad irony is that for what you would spend on an optimal autoloader, you could have bought a carbine.

A Benelli M2 isnt cheap.

A Mossberg 500 is better than no gun at all, but if I knew it was for all the marbles; it , or any other shotgun, would not be my first choice.

But for sake of discussion, I would say that my preferred Shotgun would be a Benelli M1/M2, straight stock, rifle sights, light, oversize bolt release, and large, rounded charging lever. IIRC mine was made by GG&G.

I'd keep it loaded with slugs.

JMHO

[T2C]

The only issue I have with semi-automatic shotguns is some of them are finicky about ammunition. We had some Sage shotguns at my agency that worked very well with full power slugs and buckshot. I saw occasional malfunctions with the reduced recoil buckshot, but reduced recoil ammunition was not necessary because the Sage shotguns weigh as much as a stern anchor.

If a person prefers a semi-automatic shotgun over the pump action shotgun, I suggest finding ammunition that will reliably cycle and firing at least 100 trouble free rounds before relying on it for self defense.

Grant brings up some valid points about the shotgun. Like anything else, it requires ongoing practice and training.

[Screwball]

I will add that a pump action being superior is only when you are cycling in underpowered loads... which might not cycle a semi-auto. Most people don't load in breaching or less lethal rounds... so it is really a moot point. I ran 870s since I started in L/E, which is why my bed gun is an 870 (I actually run two breaching rounds in my side saddle, as I did in my original department). I usually have my duty SIG by my nightstand, along with a backup gun (P938, J-frame)... so I have options.

If a shotgun is desired in that role, some states do have restrictions on semi-autos... but none on pumps. Living in NJ, you can legally have more capacity in an 870 over an 11-87... and have a pistol grip and adjustable stock (stupid laws, but that's another subject). While I feel there are benefits going semi-auto over pump, there are reasons people go with a pump. As with any defensive firearm, train on it.

If you have the dedication to run one, a pump shotgun is a good choice. Unless there are special considerations, I put a semi-auto shotgun slightly above it. If not, a pistol usually comes in as the best (compact, usually can mount a light, and quick reloads). Running a 5.56mm carbine might be a good choice for a lot of circumstances... but it isn't my first recommendation for home defense.

Distances within the home aren't usually that drastic, so I'd say go 9mm/.40/.45 in an AR if you want a rifle (I put a D/I .45 AR together for my ex, but broke up before I completed it; would be a very nice defensive gun ). Plus, you are in a house... so more chance of significant hearing damage with the rifle round. A 5.56mm reaches far, and while I wouldn't hesitate to use one, it puts capabilities into a person's hands that can possibly get them in trouble. If you consider civilian self defense, within normal house distances... you easily can say your life felt threatened. Unknown person in your house, most people will not argue it.

Let's say you have a rifle you trained to out to 250 yards with... and live in an area that has your neighbors maybe a mile down the road. Something goes down, you are all amped up, and somehow you end up taking a shot at someone over 50 yards from your home. Variations of Castle Doctrine differ across the country... but you likely are going to at least meet civil repercussions. Myself, if someone breaks into my house, being L/E, I'm allowed/supposed to meet them. In NJ, civilians are expected to retreat... and if they are placed in a position where their life (or family members) is endangered, they can defend themselves. Now, the rest of the country isn't as idiotic as this state... but there are areas where a civilian is not supposed to advance after a threat. While Grant is hesitant on a pump shotgun under stress, I'll say the same for a carbine. Should consider stress in all aspects of training/preparation.

Now, I'm not saying a 5.56mm in a civilian's hands is terrible... but I'd be very understood on your local laws before going that route as a home defense carbine.

[usmcvet]

870 bolt.

Lame.






1300 bolt.

Rotating locking lugs, cam pin, cam pin track and a carrier. Carrier rides in an aluminum receiver that saves weight while being plenty strong. Where else have we seen this design that scoffs at dirt, grime and debris?



I'm partial to 1300's due to the fact they survive duck hunting. My duck hunting.

One minute a 1300 is an oar, the next it is a shovel dragging my ,somewhat concerned about my predicament, butt out of waste deep lake bottom mud then birds fly over and it's a shotgun.

Bolt design also allows for the "Speed Pump" function. Shooting my well worn 1300 Defender one handed with birdshot works the action back to just before ejection.

When using heavy loads, it'll eject on its own. Throw the pump back forward and you're ready for the next shot.

I has a 1300 defender about twenty years ago. I sold it. I hated the assisted ejection. My muscle memory messed things up because I'd go to eject the round but it was already gone. It probably looked hillarious. I'm an 870 guy. It the 599's have an awesome reputation and they have the best slide release and safety locations.

[Averageman]

I've owned 870's, 1300's and a 500.
The 870's I've owned were made 35 years apart and the newer 870 express showed the difference in quality. It wasn't a bad gun, it served it's purpose, but it always felt a little heavier to me. I still have the older 870, I keep it as a reminder of how good they used to be and if I ever decide to take out my frustrations by missing a hell of a lot of shots on the local dove population.
The 1300 "Defender" I believe, wasn't a bad gun by any means, it was on the light side and recoil was "whippy" and a bit more difficult to control for me.
Believe it or not, my favorite HD shotgun is that Mossberg 500. It seems to be the perfect weight, very controllable in recoil and just "fits". I paid $65 for it OTD and likely put another 300 in a new wood, a barrel with high viz rifle sights, extended magazine, steel trigger assembly, modified safety and a light, mount and sling.
That's a lot of time and money to go through to finally find the one you want, but WTH, I like it.

[Combat_Diver]

I just purchased a NEF Pardner Pump Protector as it has the controls of my old parkerized 870 Wingmaster at home. This is my traveling work gun, keep it loaded with Non Lethal rubber 00 buck or Bean Bag rounds. Shotgun worked fine in -15 degree weather. Wish I had time to make a dent in the resident pheasant population however. For lethal ammo I shoot 00 or #4 buck. However, this is a specialized tool as my training is on the AR15 series hands down.


CD

[FirstBsure]

I have four shotguns,but the one I keep at the ready for HD,is my cheapest one, the Maverick M-88 12 GA.Pump Shotgun.
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[seb5]

My experiences are similar to many. I've always had a 590 A1 around. It's the only shotgun I own but it would never be my first choice for self defense. Tens of thousands of rounds through the AR types ensures its place as my preferred weapon type. As a law enforcement firearms instructor I've witnessed many times over the training times needed to become proficient with the shotgun versus the AR. A day of good range time will yield a credible threat with a rifle shooter, in many cases the same time frame with a shotgun will yield a disdain for the shotgun, along with a bruised shoulder. When I was younger I carried an M1 Super 90 on entry teams, always loaded with slugs. Most of our patrol guys don't even carry shotguns anymore, just AR's. I think the old "master key" went from the multi purpose tool to a very specific tool.