Best pump shotgun for HD

[26 Inf]

Wilson Combat/ScattergunTechnologies Border Patrol.

I definitely do not intend to disparage Wilson Combat with these remarks, but for HD you could go cheaper by doing it yourself and eliminating non-essentials. Here is the run down of the specs:

Adjustable Trak–Lock® Ghost Ring Rear Sight, Ramp-Type Front Sight with Tritium Insert I assume Border Patrol potentially uses slugs and extended ranges so I can see the utility of these sights for them; for home defense I would go with a bead sight, tritium if needed, and save some money; another more expensive but faster option than the ghost ring is the Burris Speedbead Mount with Fastfire Optic - the red dot is visible at night and unlike the ghost ring set up you don't have to find the dot and center it in an aperture.

18” Cylinder Bore Barrel with 3” Magnum Chamber For my use I'd just as soon have a screw in choke - also there is no mention of chamber or forcing cone work so pretty much seems to be a stock Remington barrel

Extended Magazine Tube, Total Capacity: 6+1 Rounds Definitely a must, I like a 21 inch barrel with a higher capacity mag tube

Speedfeed Furniture Speedfeed is great for standard length, for reduced length of pull stocks I prefer Choate because the recoil pad stays the same size

Sidesaddle Shell Carrier, Extended Capacity: 4 or 6 Rounds Definitely want one - this seems to be a TacStar side saddle - I'd consider ESSTAC velcro, or Mesa Tactical as better options)

High-Visibility, Non-Binding Follower Necessary - easily added owner option

Extra-Power Heavy-Duty Stainless Magazine Tube Spring Should come with mag tube extension - if not easily added owner option

Jumbo Head Safety Good addition - easy owner installation

Buttstock Swivel and Rigid Magazine Tube Sling Mount Buttstock swivel isn't even recessed QD - there is a lot of metal flopping around to bother the shooter; for HD I'd get the GG&G front sling and flashlight mount - https://www.gggaz.com/remington-870-...mbo-mount.html I'm probably the Lone Ranger on this - none of my HD shotguns wear slings in the home

Armor-Tuff® Finish I can definitely see the pluses of this for a duty shotgun, for HD use it is an unnecessary expense IMO

[Slater]

A few folks still swear by the old Ithaca 37.

[williejc]

I agree that Wilson's offering has unnecessary add-ons. The op could buy a Mossberg 500 with extended magazine and then upgrade safety and mag springs, if he wished. Or, he could jump ahead and buy a 590 or 590a1. Their website offers several variations.

[beavis612]

Remington still manufactures the 870P in a Blued/wood configuration, using the Wingmaster style bolt and metal trigger guard. They are not a catalogued item, and are only available through Lou's Police Supply, model #24899. Around $550 new. A quick google search will bring up plenty of pictures.

[lawusmc0844]

Having bought a Nighthawk customized 870 that rarely saw use and that Im about to sell, I also say save the money and don't go the custom Wilson or Nighthawk path unless you plan to use it for duty or multiple shotgun courses.

My Nighthawk is still great gun but I don't remember how much I paid for it ($1200? I did get a mil discount as the guy I called was a Marine too) but looking back its one of my purchases I regret as I rarely shot it and it sat in my safe for years.

I will do a similar spec run down like 26 Inf but on my custom scattergun

LPA ghost ring sights - I love the sight picture of LPAs and prefer ghost rings over beads in general but yes they aren't necessary for HD unless you have 100m+ hallways and plan to use slugs in your house. Also since I've only seen LPA rear sights soldered onto 870 receivers instead of rail mounted like my M590A1 SPX I can't co-witness my T1 or Primary Arms red dot with the GRS as the GRS are lower. The setup on the SPX works perfect for me as I get a lower 1/3 cowitness.

Picatinny rail mounted on top of drilled and tapped receiver - As I mentioned above the rail places the optic higher so I can't cowitness with the LPA sights, if that is a consideration for you

Mesa Tactical 6 shell side saddle - Well made but Mesa themselves said its not designed for long term storage of shotshells. Nighthawk didn't even loctite the screws so it came loose on me the first time I shot it. I think velcro sidesaddles will be a lighter and more efficient option

Hogue 12" LOP stock - I'm 5'8 and still shoot wearing plate carriers but for HD use I believe the shorter overall length the better

Hogue forend - I bought the shotgun before Magpul started their SGA line so Hogue was the standard option. Comfortable but not modular. I eventually got the Magpul MOE then MLOK forend as I found mounting a QD swivel and Streamlight TLR-1 HL on the forend works best for me. A good light is a necessity for HD in my opinion

Vang Comp front sling loop/breacher mag extension tube - Front sling loop is very similar to GG&G's but it places the front of the sling far too forward for me. Breacher tube looks cool but since I don't breach doors I wonder why I even got it in the first place lol. It does allow for 8+1 capacity though while being lighter than my 590A1 SPX.

Smoothed out action and rails - As the base gun is a Remington Express model, Nighthawk did a good job as I didn't have any feeding or extraction issues, and the action is very smooth. Then again, my Hawk 982 and M590A1 SPX are smooth as well from use.

Big dome safety - Good addition in my opinion as well

18" ported barrel - Not as heavy as my SPX, but porting is not necessary for HD. Shorter barrel is negated by my unnecessary breacher tube though

CeraKote finish - Definitely not necessary for a HD gun but at least I don't worry about it rusting up.

I paid $250 OTD for my Hawk 982 and it came with good ghost ring sights. Definitely an affordable and reliable option, the only things I added so far are Magpul MLOK forend, SGA stock, Streamlight TLR-1 HL and VCAS sling. Again I prefer a shorter LOP and OAL but even the OEM 982 furniture seems to be most robust than Remington's. I wish it at least came with a drilled and tapped receiver so I can install a rail and mount a Primary Arms red dot but for the price again I can't complain.

Looking back I should have bought my Mossberg M590A1 SPX first instead of the Nighthawk as its built for a similar purpose but at least $500 cheaper. And its more of a military grade weapon weapon anyway so if you like Mossbergs like me I say go with the standard 590s.

[sonny22]

The major difference between the 500 and the 590 that you will notice on disassembly is the magazine tube. The 590 has what I call a standard magazine tube end cap - the same design as on most other pump and semi-auto
shotguns. On these weapons the end of the magazine tube is open and the spring and follower are easily removed for cleaning and spring replacement - or, if you are a hunter, to insert a plug.

The 500, for some reason, was designed with a closed magazine tube. In order to replace the spring or follower, or, to clean the magazine tube, the tube must be unscrewed from the receiver of the shotgun. Generally, at a minimum this requires a strap wrench, often I've had to use a heat gun to loosen thread locking compound (i.e. - loctite).

For the casual user this isn't a big deal, if you are a heavy-user, or use the shotgun in inclement weather the 500's magazine tube is a major pain in the butt.

I've never owned one personally, but had the 'privilege' of trying to keep several of them running in a heavy use training environment. My advice, if you want a Mossberg pump, get a 590. If weight isn't an issue get a 590A1.

Ok, thanks, that was what I needed to know.

[26 Inf]

I paid $250 OTD for my Hawk 982 and it came with good ghost ring sights. Definitely an affordable and reliable option

I've seen you mention this before, I may keep an eye out for one on sale.

[Ron3]

Lawusmc0844, the Hogue 12 inch LOP stock for the 870 bolts right up to the Hawk 982.

It's well made and weighs about 1 lb less than the stock one. (I weighed them)
It did not upset the balance of the weapon. I think because it brings it 1.5 inches closer to your body. I only noticed better, faster handling. I didn't notice an increase in recoil either. (Wider, rounder comb, wider, better designed buttpad)

Nothing but good things!

[MountainRaven]

It's also a $1500 shotgun. We aren't talking a high end competition or clay gun.

Get one of the used guns mentioned above. An old 870 with a light clamped on would serve you well and be dead nuts reliable for sub-$350 total.

Let me know if you find a high end skeet/trap/clays gun for less than $1500.

OP didn't mention anything about price, just, "Best pump shotgun for HD."

That eliminates the 870 Express, as those are hugely problematic these days. The 870 Police is a good option, but as soon as you start looking into those, you can very rapidly approach the price of the Wilson guns. Nevermind that you're giving money to Freedom Group. At which point: Why bother? Remington has shoddy QC and poor customer service. I'd rather spend my money on a Wilson and know that it's almost certainly going to be done right the first time and, if it isn't, I'll have Wilson's customer service to fall back on.

I've seen more problems than I care to with Mossberg 500s and Mossberg's customer service is little better than Remington's, often requiring multiple trips back to the factory to address issues. I've never seen or heard of an issue with a 590 or a 590A1, but I find the roughness of the action bothersome.

Benelli doesn't tend to have the QC/QA/CS issues of either the Mossberg or the Remington guns, but they're hard to get parts for, the parts tend to be expensive, the aftermarket is nonexistent, and they have all the problems (and benefits) that the 1300 has.

I find the recommendations WRT ghost rings curious, as they have been strongly recommended for serious fighting guns for as long as I can remember. How many SMEs would recommend using an AR, AK, or PCC for HD with only a front sight on it?

Bead sights are great on skeet/trap/clays guns, where you're pointing the shotgun rather than aiming it (and missing the target with a single pellet is meaningless rather than potentially catastrophic), but on an HD gun, unless I'm living alone, it's getting rifle sights at the very least. YMMV.

[26 Inf]

I find the recommendations WRT ghost rings curious, as they have been strongly recommended for serious fighting guns for as long as I can remember. How many SMEs would recommend using an AR, AK, or PCC for HD with only a front sight on it?

Hey Scare Crow, that's kind of a Straw Man* response, we were talking about shotguns. Let me 'splain why the bead is quicker, even with slugs, out to about 25 yards. For shooters that have a basic knowledge of the shotgun, the shotgun itself, along with your mount serves as a great big ol' rear sight. An good shot gunner can fire a well-aimed shot as soon as the comb of the stock hits his/her cheek, everything is aligned at that point your eye is looking over the rear sight plane (top of the receiver) and the bead is floating on the front of the sight plane like the sun on the horizon. It is essentially, at that speed a stance directed firing technique. Inside combat range with the shotgun, all the pellets of modern defensive loads will normally be on a human torso. Of course, with any shot loading there is always the chance of a flyer, something you have to consider regardless of type of sights used.

Think of the bead as a red dot, your stance ensures the red dot is on target.

With ghost rings and rifle sights you will be slower because you need to get a more difficult sight picture. In addition, for dimlight usage a tritium bead is quicker than finding the dot on the front sight blade of the ghost ring set up and then trying to center it in a non-illuminated aperture.

*Wizard of Oz reference in case you didn't get it.

Bead sights are great on skeet/trap/clays guns, where you're pointing the shotgun rather than aiming it (and missing the target with a single pellet is meaningless rather than potentially catastrophic), but on an HD gun, unless I'm living alone, it's getting rifle sights at the very least. YMMV.

Once again, regardless of sight system used, you will always run the risk of fliers with shot loads; additionally, pattern spread is pattern spread regardless of sights used.

Beyond 25 yards with slugs is where the ghost ring sights begin to shine. I don't have the need to hunt with slugs, and am confident in my abilities with the simple bead out to 60 yards (beyond 40ish yards I'm probably slower than the average shooter with ghost rings) so I don't personally own any shotguns with ghost rings. I had an 870 set up with ghost rings at work, rarely demoed anything with it because, as I said, with shot, inside the envelop of acceptable buckshot range, beads (or a red dot) are faster.

For EOTWAWKI I'd go with a Burris Speedbead Mount and an appropriately sized red dot - the Burris Fastfire would be OK. That would give the best of the buck and slug world.

YMMV.