X number of reps for X number of sets......clarification

[ABNAK]

So with the plethora of workouts one can find out there, they all invariably have you doing X number of reps for X number of sets. One thing I have yet to see is the specific weight used per set.

Example: let's say you are doing 4 sets of incline DB presses for 12 reps. I've been lifting for the better part of 30 years and I know damn well that the only way you could do 12 reps for all 4 sets is to drop the weight a little each set to maintain the rep range. In other words you're not going to use 80lb DB's for all 4 sets of 12 (assuming a max effort each set). No way in hell, unless you're resting 5 or 6 minutes between sets! Sure, if you could do 20 reps but stopped at 12 on the first set then maybe, but training to near failure on each set there is no way. You'd HAVE to drop weight each set.

Am I missing something?

ETA---I generally rest anywhere from 90 seconds to 2 minutes, depending on what body part and exercise I'm doing. Maybe that is why my reps drop off with the same weight. It's like clockwork: if I do a 100% effort with a weight for 10 reps, my second set with that same weight (and a 1.5-2 minute rest in between) is about half, or 5 reps. I can take that to the bank. The taper gets less drastic on subsequent sets, it's just the first-to-second where the big drop in reps happens. So I'll ASSume that when you see a specific workout saying X reps for X sets they are talking about dropping the weight each set to stay in the reps range, unless of course you're planning on spending the better part of the day in the gym resting between sets!

[WillBrink]

So with the plethora of workouts one can find out there, they all invariably have you doing X number of reps for X number of sets. One thing I have yet to see is the specific weight used per set.

Example: let's say you are doing 4 sets of incline DB presses for 12 reps. I've been lifting for the better part of 30 years and I know damn well that the only way you could do 12 reps for all 4 sets is to drop the weight a little each set to maintain the rep range. In other words you're not going to use 80lb DB's for all 4 sets of 12 (assuming a max effort each set). No way in hell, unless you're resting 5 or 6 minutes between sets! Sure, if you could do 20 reps but stopped at 12 on the first set then maybe, but training to near failure on each set there is no way. You'd HAVE to drop weight each set.

Am I missing something?

Whether you can do all sets with same weight depends on what % of your 1RM you're using. If you're using say 50% of your 1RM, you can likely do 4x12 with the same weight. Different programs will call for different % of your 1RM per set and so forth. Typical programming has someone adding weight to each set, but there's many variations. Some programs may indeed have you resting 5 mins between sets to complete X reps per set with X% of 1RM

For example, a classic 5x5 may have you using 70-80% of your 1RM for all sets, with a long rest period to achieve that, and so forth.

[ABNAK]

Whether you can do all sets with same weight depends on what % of your 1RM you're using. If you're using say 50% of your 1RM, you can likely do 4x12 with the same weight. Different programs will call for different % of your 1RM per set and so forth. Typical programming has someone adding weight to each set, but there's many variations. Some programs may indeed have you resting 5 mins between sets to complete X reps per set with X% of 1RM

For example, a classic 5x5 may have you using 70-80% of your 1RM for all sets, with a long rest period to achieve that, and so forth.

Right, but in that case you're not going to failure on that first set, you're simply trying to maintain a rep range. Your first set would be relatively easy and each subsequent one would get harder, right?

Yeah, I guess there are the variables you mention: rest time between sets, % of 1RM, etc. It's just that very few workouts spell it all out.



BTW Will, Merry Christmas!!!

[Ironman8]

Why is there no specific weight called out? Because your 1RM will be different than the next guy's and so on and so on. The better way to program for multiple people at different strength levels is as a % of a 1RM. Also, if the program calls for going to failure, then it would be hard to call out a specific rep scheme as that may change day by day (although will have some degree of predictability).

At the end of the day, if you're following a program that only calls out a set/rep scheme, without taking into account % of 1RM, rest intervals, ect., then that's nothing more than a generic program easily found on the internet or in muscle mags. I'd suggest finding something more tailored to you and your goals.

[Shorts]

Am I missing something?

Yes, two things. 1. The goal of why you're weight lifting and 2. Your 1 rep max (1RM).

Generally there are three basic weightlifting goals a person trains for - Size, Strength or Power. The Sets x Reps of the % of your 1RM is how you determine which goal you get - Size, Strength or Power. Weightlifting is about how you move the weight you're moving and how many times you're doing it.

Athletes and strength coaches tailor weight workouts for the season's cycle. Sometimes they work on them to build strength. Sometimes they work up their power. Some need size. What type they do is based on what they need their body to be doing - the goal.

[travistheone]

My amateur take on this is either-

1. work up to a heavy final set of 12.
2. choose a weight that will be challenging to maintain the reps. Overcome this challenge. get stronger.

Typically weight goes up as sets progress, except in the case of increasing reps and dropping weight like a 5/3/1 assistance work.

[ABNAK]

My amateur take on this is either-

1. work up to a heavy final set of 12.
2. choose a weight that will be challenging to maintain the reps. Overcome this challenge. get stronger.

Typically weight goes up as sets progress, except in the case of increasing reps and dropping weight like a 5/3/1 assistance work.

Sure you can pyramid, but then the time between sets becomes relevant as well as the reps. If you're training to near-failure on each set (actually to failure if you have a spotter), then as the weight rises the reps will drop. If 225 for 10 reps is your absolute max then you could rest an hour and 245 for 10 ain't gonna happen. Now, if you're not training to near failure then it is possible (to an extent) to increase weight and keeps the reps the same, as you're stopping early the first few sets, which then become almost like heavier warm-up sets in that regard.

[ABNAK]

Why is there no specific weight called out? Because your 1RM will be different than the next guy's and so on and so on. The better way to program for multiple people at different strength levels is as a % of a 1RM. Also, if the program calls for going to failure, then it would be hard to call out a specific rep scheme as that may change day by day (although will have some degree of predictability).

At the end of the day, if you're following a program that only calls out a set/rep scheme, without taking into account % of 1RM, rest intervals, ect., then that's nothing more than a generic program easily found on the internet or in muscle mags. I'd suggest finding something more tailored to you and your goals.

Pretty much this. They throw out a rep/set scheme without the crucial 1RM and rest details. I have lifted long enough to question these type of workouts which are devoid of those crucial details.

I am looking at a "Neural-Metabolic" training program to start soon. You alternate, either over time (maybe every 4-6 weeks) or alternate on split days in the same week to keep the muscle guessing. I'm going to try the Neural on one day and Metabolic for the next workout day (same body part) that week on a split schedule, then rotate the following week.

Neural:
Low reps
More sets
Shorter time under tension
Longer rest
[Example is 5 sets of 5, fast repetitions, 3 minute rest between sets] <----"fast" repetitions meaning not the slower ones below, not to be read as sloppy form



Metabolic:
More reps
Less sets
Longer time under tension
Shorter rest
[Example: 4 sets of 10-12, 3 second down/1 second up pace, 90 second rest between sets]



To answer earlier questions, I am primarily lifting for size, not powerlifter strength. Again, after lifting for so long I know full well that you have to incorporate SOME strength building routines to enhance your size, i.e. they are not mutually exclusive. The above program seems to mix in both.

[Shorts]

Pretty much this. They throw out a rep/set scheme without the crucial 1RM and rest details. I have lifted long enough to question these type of workouts which are devoid of those crucial details.

I think there may be some confusion. You, the person working out, are suppose to provide the 1RM (here's ACSMs take). You need to test for it by performing a 1RM session. (or use a predicted 1RM based on submax lifts). That is the starting point for any weight training plan.

A plan that does provide a universal 1RM is one to be weary of.

As for the standards for rest periods between lifts, we'll use ACSMs for this example:
Strength lifts - rest 2-3min for high intensity(%), or 1-2 for lower
Same for Power and Size
Endurance you rest shorter 30sec-1min

To answer earlier questions, I am primarily lifting for size, not powerlifter strength. Again, after lifting for so long I know full well that you have to incorporate SOME strength building routines to enhance your size, i.e. they are not mutually exclusive. The above program seems to mix in both.

Traditionally size is achieved by working 2x/wk for 1-3/6sets at 8-12reps at 70-85%/100% resting 2-3min depending on user (we'll use ACSM standards for this citation).

I recognize that these days there are a lot of programs out there that work that don't follow the above formula to a T. What I would advise is do your homework that the program you do use is maintainable and safe/healthy, as well as effective.