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Thread: PA-10 First Impressions

  1. #41
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    So what kind of accuracy were you getting, and what optic were you running? What kind of reloads were you using? And how did the ejected brass look?

    And what is the total round count? Trying to help this thread by accumulating objective data...

  2. #42
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    Got out the range finally. Shot the new complete upper I picked up on sale. It is an 18" mid-length, stainless barrel, nitride BCG, and MI Gen 2 SS15 rail, with A2 hider.

    Swapped the same Weaver Tactical 3-10x scope/mount I have the other 18" I have. Cleaned/lubed bolt and swabbed barrel prior to range. Ran 70 rounds through it. Majority were my bulk 155 gr reloads with mil brass, over CCI-200 and H4895. Also shot 20 rounds of Tula. Function was 100%. Accuracy was garbage with the Tula, but averaged in the 1.5-2.0" range. Best was a little under 1.5" for 5 shots. Acceptable in my mind.

    I also used Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 3 M118 PMAGS with no issues. Locked back 100%. This upper did produce some minor case head swipe on fired cases, but nothing that would preclude reloading.

    I remain pleased with my gamble on these, at least for a hobby piece.

  3. #43
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    Got my ALG trigger in the lower, so more testing will be coming soon. Wanting to work up some hunting loads with the 165gr SST since they're inexpensive yet known to be very, very effective, so that should let me know a bit about what accuracy this will be capable of.

    This thing has me seriously craving hunting opportunities with it. I mean BADLY craving it, like I want to spend every possible day out and start stacking deer, coyotes, woodchucks, whatever. I've gone about a decade and a half almost never hunting at all, like maybe 6-8 days total in the last 5 years, and now want to fill albums of pictures with it doing its job because now this is the tool I actually want for it. It's so weird but that's how it is, I guess having spent the last decade or so wanting to shoot more so I get only stuff that's fun to shoot often instead of the 45-50 week dust collectors. Having gone from 6 weekends a year hunting and maybe 3 shooting targets from age 5 to 21 then to 20-30+ per year practice and competition and maybe 1 if I'm lucky hunting from age 32 to now, maybe it's just the constant condition of wanting what you have least of.
    Last edited by yellowfin; 06-22-17 at 21:40.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws...it's...insane!" -- Penn Jillette

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mic2377 View Post
    So what kind of accuracy were you getting, and what optic were you running? What kind of reloads were you using? And how did the ejected brass look?

    And what is the total round count? Trying to help this thread by accumulating objective data...
    OK, some updated info. So far about 50 rounds through it, all 145gr Privi ball over 44gr of 748. Only tested at 50 yards so far, which so far has been getting me around 1.5MOA--which given this is with a cheap bullet and no load development yet, I am pleased and have a LOT of possibility to look forward to. I've got 165gr SST's, 168gr AMax, and 130gr Speer varmint bullets to start working up loads with and as soon as I can get that loaded up, we will indeed see some progress.

    WAY easier to shoot with the ALG ACT trigger in, and quite enjoyable, and it would be even more so if the thing wouldn't nudge my head muffs up so much. This is leading me to another point of discovery: DON'T settle for the standard m4 type stock on it, put something on it with more support for the cheek. I think having the plain m4 stock contributes a lot to the earpro nudging. As for the optic, I have a SWFA 10x scope on it right now. It's what I had laying around and it's quite functional for it.

    As far as ejected brass, it looks OK but I do see a few nicks on the necks of a few pieces but not all and a mark but not a dent from the ejector. Not bad considering what it is--a SCAR17 or LaRue OBR it is not. I'm guessing they overgas it to shoot cheap surplus rounds. Quite honestly I wish they'd be so nice as to put an adjustable gas block on it as a standard feature right out of the box, but I suppose their premise is that those buying this kind of rifle aren't the type to want one.

    I will have to follow up on these points after I get an adjustable gas block and can mount on it thus to be shooting it in the form which I choose for any rifle in its role.
    Last edited by yellowfin; 06-29-17 at 17:28.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things with insane laws...it's...insane!" -- Penn Jillette

  5. #45
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    Get yourself some foam in-the-ear plugs. For twenty dollars or so Amazon will bring you 200 pairs of Howard Leight Max plugs. Comfortable and dont get bumped out of position like muffs do.

  6. #46
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    I bought a complete PA10 as well...

    If any one is interested, I have a pretty through write up going over here... ( No offense mods, but it is lengthy, and I didn't want to hijack this thread. ) If I should make my own thread just let me know.

    Various accuracy results with it being WAY overgassed included... ( I will add an adjustable gas block as well. )

    http://m14forum.com/m16-ar15/346026-...ervations.html
    Last edited by bfoosh006; 07-11-17 at 10:10.

  7. #47
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    The PA-10 is a great kit project for builders or buyers if you want to find out what can go wrong with these guns, and then spend a lot of time trouble-shooting and fixing them.

    When you see a complete AR10 sold for $699, ask how much engineering, testing, and evaluation went into the product.

    How extensive is the QC program for critical dimensions like chambers, gas ports, bore uniformity, vent holes, chrome carrier bore dims, gas ring metallurgy, spring metallurgy, etc. when you can just say, "Send it back and we'll replace it."

    The AR10 world isn't like the AR15 where you can ride the coattails of established dims and the result of de-bugging after 60 years of constant military RDT&E.

    From an engineering standpoint, it's a totally different rifle due to the 7.62 NATO cartridge characteristics in the bore and gas system, BCG weights, spring rates, Bolt Carrier travel distance, cartridge shape, projectile weight stack in the magazine, recoil effects on the mechanical interaction of the parts, particularly the magazine and cartridge stack.

    Look at how long it took Knight's to get the SR25s to a level of reliability that is acceptable. Look at how many small tweaks have been made to the vent relief hole locations, angles, chamber dimensions, gas port locations, gas port diameters, gas rings, magazines, bolt catch metallurgy and inspections, mag catches, buffers, recoil springs, gas blocks, gas tubes, carrier guide rails...basically every aspect of the gun needed more research, development, testing, evaluation, and incorporation into production after extensive testing across fleet samples. That kind of work costs insane amounts of money because you need competent engineering and testing staff who require higher-than-average salaries, with tens of thousands of rounds and fleet sizes for rifle samples.

    No way any of that is happening for $699 per rifle. Buyer gets to be the tester at that point. As long as people understand that and are ok with that, it's an acceptable builder's/tester's kit rifle. Should be fine for those who may plink or hunt with it a few times a year max. Not something I would expect to crank out a high round count successfully.

  8. #48
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    High round count on these rifles is a little more expensive than on 5.56 so it's going to take a minute to find that out. I don't think anyone here is under any illusions as to what this rifle is. You get what kind pay for.

  9. #49
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    I don't think anyone here, myself included, is trying to say this is a duty-grade weapon... Without a question it is not that well refined.

    But for a fun range gun that I plink with instead of shooting my $$$ precision 308 AR, it is fun to tinker with. PSA is shooting for a certain customer (which M4C is not necessarily) and I think they have hit that target.

    I will say I have seen a lot of people struggle at the range with cheap large frame AR's, especially DPMS, and so far mine have worked much better than that.

    Data collection will continue...

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas View Post
    High round count on these rifles is a little more expensive than on 5.56 so it's going to take a minute to find that out. I don't think anyone here is under any illusions as to what this rifle is. You get what kind pay for.
    Agreed.

    I think some people are forgetting the price point here and comparing it to a SR25 or SCAR17. There is a big difference. PSA has its market and so far has been successful. If you're not a fan of their products, its your choice. But majority of the shooter population is the casual shooter with a low budget. I don't see that many guys rockin SCAR's or Knights on the range...

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