Shooting Range in Vegas sharing info on what works and what doesn't...

[noonesshowmonkey]

Here is what Battlefield Vegas said:

6/27/2015
As for FN barrels, I just recently purchased twenty of the complete PSA 12.5" and 10.5" uppers to test them out. So far they have functioned properly like the Daniel Defense and LMT's and have had zero issues. They don't have a huge amount of rounds through them but no issues of jamming have been reported. That's a good thing in our business because our customers come for the experience and having a weapon that jams is a deal-killer.

Depending when they went on the line, it's a fair estimate to say the lowest estimate for some is 30,000 rounds and up to 50,000 rounds on others. The uppers with the higher round counts have suffered from sheared/cracked bolt lugs but that is on par with bolts from other manufacturers.

2/4/2016
If there's one thing to take away from this thread it's that we have worried entirely too much about breaking parts, barrel wear, ect. It also shows you don't have to spend a fortune to get quality parts (PSA).

We used the Palmetto BCG's and they are as reliable as the others we use. I will say though, the Colt BCG's have held up the best so far.

9/10/2016 8:52:22 PM EST
Update on Palmetto State Arms upper....

This is pretty impressive as one of my armorers (Danny Boy) wanted me to know how long is lasted.

This was a Palmetto State upper with the FN barrel and here's the history from the repair log:
- Put on the line 21 MAR 15
- Replaced bolt on 01 AUG 15, headspace good
- Replaced bolt on 30 AUG 15, headspace good
- Replaced bolt on 05 OCT 15, headspace good
- Barrel is starting to keyhole, pulled off the line 10 SEP 16

This upper has been put through the ring for almost a year and half and is now starting to keyhole. Very impressive and definitely got more than I expected out of it.

Testimonial on Colt:

...

That being said, the RSO's have used these weapons every day of the week and migrate towards the Colt's. They have been on the line since the first week of October and as stated above, they haven't suffered from any issues up until this point. The only reason that I am bringing this up is because I was in the armory yesterday morning and I noticed on of the Colt's disassembled on the bench. It was a FDE model and I knew that those models were on the line and shouldn't be down for cleaning. I asked my armorer Danny Boy what the issue was and he said that the ejector spring was in about 7-8 pieces and that it actually happened to be the second one of the morning. I thought that was pretty odd for two ejector springs to go out in the same day. My other armorer Sean stated that he had already replaced two others early this week for a total of four Colt M4's to suffer ejector spring failure in one week. Also, the ejector pin spring sheared upon failure and had to be punched out.

For this rifle to have four HARD months of use and only suffer from a ejector spring failure is really good in my opinion but the fact that four went down with the exact same issue is what's strange. Also, we never saw the usual slow down during the November through February season and these weapons have continued to see high round counts. Without looking at numbers of rounds consumed for the time period it's fair to see these rifles have no less than 25,000-30,000 rounds through them.

25-30K on the original bolts?

Yes sir. Not one bolt failure on the Colt's to date.

This is a gold mine of great information.

As I'd asked in a previous thread, CNC Machining, QA/QC, And the World of Good Enough, if the current state of American manufacturing is at such high levels of precision and consistency, what exactly differentiates key components from one manufacturer and another?

The PSA gear appears to have two of the key components down:
1) FN makes a good barrel, all day long, and a double chrome lined barrel just shoots.
2) PSA has managed to find a way to mass procure mass produced BCGs that keep pace with their competition in terms of durability.

Again, back to the original argument made in that thread, in-spec components made from quality materials are good products, regardless of whose name is on them. That is the beauty of the AR-15 pattern and the development of mass production. That we have a statistically relevant sample set out of this firing range is a gold mine.

Finally, this is a fantastic verification of what everyone here has known and preached for a long time: COLT. If you are going to spend your hard earned sheckles on anything, you absolutely can't go wrong with COLT. The armorers gravitate towards the most handsome, durable, reliable, easy to maintain, well machined, well assembled, well executed examples of their weapon systems, and those just so happen to have a rampant pony on the side of the lower receiver.

Awesome info.

I'm very interested to get more information about the nitride process, barrel life, differences in manufacturing methods for these barrels, and the impact that SA vs FA have on their overall life. Probably the most actionable information on this subject so far has been the transition temperature difference between a nitrocarburized surface treatment and chromium. Science! It works!

[Iraqgunz]

PSA doesn't manufacture BCG's. They buy them like most of the industry.

This is a gold mine of great information.

As I'd asked in a previous thread, CNC Machining, QA/QC, And the World of Good Enough, if the current state of American manufacturing is at such high levels of precision and consistency, what exactly differentiates key components from one manufacturer and another?

The PSA gear appears to have two of the key components down:
1) FN makes a good barrel, all day long, and a double chrome lined barrel just shoots.
2) PSA has managed to find a way to mass produce BCGs that keep pace with their competition in terms of durability.

Again, back to the original argument made in that thread, in-spec components made from quality materials are good products, regardless of whose name is on them. That is the beauty of the AR-15 pattern and the development of mass production. That we have a statistically relevant sample set out of this firing range is a gold mine.

Finally, this is a fantastic verification of what everyone here has known and preached for a long time: COLT. If you are going to spend your hard earned sheckles on anything, you absolutely can't go wrong with COLT. The armorers gravitate towards the most handsome, durable, reliable, easy to maintain, well machined, well assembled, well executed examples of their weapon systems, and those just so happen to have a rampant pony on the side of the lower receiver.

Awesome info.

I'm very interested to get more information about the nitride process, barrel life, differences in manufacturing methods for these barrels, and the impact that SA vs FA have on their overall life. Probably the most actionable information on this subject so far has been the transition temperature difference between a nitrocarburized surface treatment and chromium. Science! It works!

[noonesshowmonkey]

PSA doesn't manufacture BCG's. They buy them like most of the industry.

Edited the original to reflect that. Thanks.

[Warg]

I am pretty sure it was SA. If not, please send a link that states otherwise.

C4


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Likely full auto given the replacement TD uppers mated to the original MR556 lower were shot full auto as indicated in the ARF thread:

"The one thing that we did with the TD-415 upper different from the factory MR556 is that the TD unit has had a suppressor on it since day one. That's a LOT more gas and pressure and it's been on the line every day since my original post. I can't give you an accurate or even ballpark round count as I haven't had time to check the maintenance logs. I thought I would just give you an update on that specific unit since quite a few people asked me my opinion about it. That being said, I really like the upper. It cleans up easy and other than every single round being shot through it is suppressed and 90% of that being full-auto, just a spring failing seems like a minor issue. "

About 2/3rd down in this post: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...ge.html&page=9

[Defaultmp3]

So, we have what is probably an unlined barrel being shot full auto mostly, keyholing at 10k rounds.

[GiddyHitch]

DMack was getting sub-MOA at 20k+ rounds on a melonited (actually Isonite QPQ) barrel in a PWS MK114 Mod0.

Also, keep in mind that that BLV is evaluating keyholing at 10y, not 100y or something. Their barrels are basically smoothbore when they're taken offline.

[C4IGrant]

Likely full auto given the replacement TD uppers mated to the original MR556 lower were shot full auto as indicated in the ARF thread:

"The one thing that we did with the TD-415 upper different from the factory MR556 is that the TD unit has had a suppressor on it since day one. That's a LOT more gas and pressure and it's been on the line every day since my original post. I can't give you an accurate or even ballpark round count as I haven't had time to check the maintenance logs. I thought I would just give you an update on that specific unit since quite a few people asked me my opinion about it. That being said, I really like the upper. It cleans up easy and other than every single round being shot through it is suppressed and 90% of that being full-auto, just a spring failing seems like a minor issue. "

About 2/3rd down in this post: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...ge.html&page=9

MR's are SA only. So unless they drilled the hole converted it, this gun wasn't shot on FA.

C4


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[ABNAK]

MR's are SA only. So unless they drilled the hole converted it, this gun wasn't shot on FA.

C4


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Maybe they used a FA lower?

[26 Inf]

Maybe they used a FA lower?

Somewhere in the thread he talked about Form 2'ing Colts to FA, so one could assume that he did that with the MR556.

[Warg]

Somewhere in the thread he talked about Form 2'ing Colts to FA, so one could assume that he did that with the MR556.

Agreed. I don't think Ron would be careless when speaking about how hard the uppers were run, spring failures, etc. They still offer a full auto 416: http://www.battlefieldvegas.com/prod...-assault-rifle. Whether this is the same setup Ron was referring to in the 215 thread is unknown.