Short shuck your Rem 870?? No. Not really.

[Joe Mamma]

In your experience isn't this more of a problem with extended mag tube guns when they get down to less than half the tube?

I've timed guys who go low two's, even high ones on multiple target splits with 870's; on straight doubles they easily beat most semi's. Generally these are hunters or guys who have shot a lot of skeet with 870's. I don't ever recall having seen this malfunction on a standard tube 870 with a good spring.

That's a great question. I don't really know how to answer it. I have only seen this with extended mag tube guns. However, the guys I have seen who run their 870s hard pretty much all have extended mag tube guns. So it's not really good data.

With regards to how many rounds remain in the tube when they have problems, I don't know. I didn't pay too much attention to it because I didn't realize it was a factor at the time.

By the way, one company that has done the 870 action bar modification in the picture I posted above is Gun Metal Inc. (located in Maryland): http://www.gunmetalusa.com

I have no ties to the company, but thought someone might want to know this.

Joe Mamma

[Chickenhawks]

Good info! I love the very knowledgeable folks on this forum.

Just to confirm, the problem I have noticed with recent manufactured 870s with extended tubes that results in a 'click' on an empty chamber, is primarily on the 2nd or 3rd shot out of the tube. This is where a shell will make the jump between the two tubes. It usually happens only when the shooter is pumping quickly.

I have never experienced it with a one-piece tube, and never with the new extended one-piece design Remington is now using on some models.

I have tried every tube polish trick; every aftermarket follower (never had a factory follower break); every extended tube; and every aftermarket spring. Some worked for a while, but nothing gave me 100% reliability, especially on certain models built on the Express frame.

[26 Inf]

By the way, one company that has done the 870 action bar modification in the picture I posted above is Gun Metal Inc. (located in Maryland): http://www.gunmetalusa.com

I have no ties to the company, but thought someone might want to know this.

Joe Mamma

Thanks, I was getting ready to buy a new set of action bars and go to someone with a TIG welder, just because.

ETA: I didn't see it on their site, so I emailed them.

[26 Inf]

Good info! I love the very knowledgeable folks on this forum.

Just to confirm, the problem I have noticed with recent manufactured 870s with extended tubes that results in a 'click' on an empty chamber, is primarily on the 2nd or 3rd shot out of the tube. This is where a shell will make the jump between the two tubes. It usually happens only when the shooter is pumping quickly.

I have never experienced it with a one-piece tube, and never with the new extended one-piece design Remington is now using on some models.

I have tried every tube polish trick; every aftermarket follower (never had a factory follower break); every extended tube; and every aftermarket spring. Some worked for a while, but nothing gave me 100% reliability, especially on certain models built on the Express frame.

I have a Mossberg 930 JM Pro, they are pretty much know for having feeding problems at the interface between the tubes. I went down to the LGS and Greg chamfered the end of the mag tube with an oversized reamer. That seems to have fixed it in the several hundred rounds I've fired since then. Not enough to give a real opinion.

[williejc]

Remington 2 piece tubes--made for decades--required that the first section be screwed onto the tube and then top section then be screwed into the first section. This method was suggested a best procedure for reliable function.

20 years ago when examining my 870 security weapon with the factory extension tube, I noticed that 2 shells had compressed such that an outward ring or collar formed at the juncture of plastic and metal section. These shells would not chamber. Ammo was premium law enforcement. Of course, this deformation was not typical, and I had never seen nor hard of it. But, I learned that it is indeed possible. Thus checking shotgun ammo that has been loaded in extension tubes is a good idea. Now I like 1 round tubes but not for reasons of possible shell deformation. On my 590a1, which comes from the factory with a 5 shot tube, the 1 shot version allows the gun now to be available with 6 rounds without the extra bulk or weight of longer tubes.

Similarly and in recent months I discovered a deformed 9mm round in a box of premium l.e. ammo. If I load it a magazine--handgun, rifle, or shotgun--I inspect it first.

[T2C]

I fire several hundred rounds through an 870 each year and it has an extended magazine tube. Once in a blue moon it will eject an empty hull and not chamber a loaded cartridge when operating the action quickly.

So this may be due to me outrunning the magazine spring? It rarely happens, but when it does I assume it is operator error.

[Chickenhawks]

I am continuing to research this issue. I have tried, quite literally, just about every spring, follower and extension tube on the market. Nothing ever worked. If you pump fast enough - we are talking .25 to .30 splits - the 2nd or 3rd shell out of the tube fails to chamber.

It now appears I was wrong about the two-piece tube. With advice from a member of these forums, I began to research the issue of what Remington calls "shell surge." Under recoil, the shotgun moves back. With a tube full of shells that have enough mass, the shell column can effectively move forward in the tube, resulting in the next shell missing the right-side shell latch by a fraction (1/8") and the result is a failure to fire. (I hope I have this right.)

This explains a LOT. It explains why it is not from short-stroking, and also why it ONLY happens when shooting; one can test it with dummy shells all day long and it will work flawless. It also explains why it only happens with extended magazine tubes. The length of the shell column must have enough mass (resistance to motion) to effectively move the entire column forward that 1/8" under recoil.

Remington began to research shell surge years ago on their police shotguns. They generally recommend the longer (22") police magazine spring as a fix, and their concern was with the heavier police slug or buckshot loads.

It now all makes sense. An extended tube full of birdshot or a standard tube full of slugs may have enough mass to jump forward in the tube under recoil. (It doesn't actually jump forward; it's the shotgun that jumps backwards.)

So the solution to those very few people who can pump the shotgun that fast, just may be the modification pointed out earlier in this thread. The problem is that there may be other issues that are created by trying to solve this timing problem, and it will take extensive testing.

I want to work with a gunsmith, preferably up here in Canada to solve any cross-border issues, who will do a similar modification to a factory new fore-end tube assembly. That way, I get to try them back-to-back on the same shotgun, and on the same day. Plus, my training shotguns aren't out of service for a month or two.

If this modification actually works, and holds up to repeated durability and reliability testing ... it will be a TREMENDOUS market for a gunsmith who wants to buy factory-new assemblies and sell the pre-made upgrade. There would be hundreds of people interested. (I need four right off the bat.)

Maybe it's just me, but I would spend $60 on an upgraded tube, rather than sending mine off to the gunsmith for modification.

I would appreciate any comments or feedback on this issue, or suggestions for gunsmiths who want to upgrade and stock these tube assemblies for retail sale.

After years of searching for a solution, I think we are getting closer. 99% of all the 870 shooters in the world would never approach the speed of shooting where this would be a problem, but I kinda expected this forum is comprised of the 1% folks.

[Linebacker]

I have a remedy for the 870 problems, Mossberg 590. :-)

[Chickenhawks]

Got one. Snatched up a rare 14"-barrel 590A1. (Perfectly legal up here in Canada.)

I am saving it for a custom shotgun project. It is a great shotgun, and I did some basic smoothing plus an XS Big Dot sight and a better feeling safety, but after 870s (I have six of them) the 590 just seems so ... finicky. There are a LOT of moving parts on these things!

But I will say one thing. Mossberg has always been the price-point gun, compared to the 870, but QC has been slipping for years at Remington. My 590A1 is impressively-built. I just need to shoot it, oh about ... 10,000 rounds to get it to loosen up a bit.

But don't tell anyone, but the short-barreled shotgun that I carry in polar bear country is no longer my 14" 870 with Urbino stock; it is the 590A1. But, that STOCK! Does that darn thing fit ANYONE? I shortened mine an inch and a half with a saw, and then installed a single-point sling adapter plate. It's not that I would ever use a single-point sling; it just adds back some of the length for shooting in summer clothes, and then I take it off for parka season.

I tried a single-point sling once. I walked 100 feet. It hit me in the balls five times. I took it off.

It could be I was doing it wrong. That's what my wife says about why we have no children, but that's another story.

Although, technically it could be connected. Single-point slings are great for shooting ranges and building entries but if you use one in bear country, you ain't NEVER going to have more children, if you get what I mean.

[Omen]

Got one. Snatched up a rare 14"-barrel 590A1. (Perfectly legal up here in Canada.)

I am saving it for a custom shotgun project. It is a great shotgun, and I did some basic smoothing plus an XS Big Dot sight and a better feeling safety, but after 870s (I have six of them) the 590 just seems so ... finicky. There are a LOT of moving parts on these things!

But I will say one thing. Mossberg has always been the price-point gun, compared to the 870, but QC has been slipping for years at Remington. My 590A1 is impressively-built. I just need to shoot it, oh about ... 10,000 rounds to get it to loosen up a bit.

But don't tell anyone, but the short-barreled shotgun that I carry in polar bear country is no longer my 14" 870 with Urbino stock; it is the 590A1. But, that STOCK! Does that darn thing fit ANYONE? I shortened mine an inch and a half with a saw, and then installed a single-point sling adapter plate. It's not that I would ever use a single-point sling; it just adds back some of the length for shooting in summer clothes, and then I take it off for parka season.

I tried a single-point sling once. I walked 100 feet. It hit me in the balls five times. I took it off.

It could be I was doing it wrong. That's what my wife says about why we have no children, but that's another story.

Although, technically it could be connected. Single-point slings are great for shooting ranges and building entries but if you use one in bear country, you ain't NEVER going to have more children, if you get what I mean.

I have the Magpul stock on my 590A1 and it sounds like you would benefit from one as well. The adjustable spacers solve the winter / summer transition too.