Hudson H9 announced

[Outlander Systems]

I'm kinda on this.

Considering I have to maintain all these damn things by myself, there's zero upside for me to picking up new heaters other than for the dick stroke of it.

I've distilled my shit down to two platforms of gatpieces.

That said, if dudes like collecting stuff, that's cool too.

This is not a brand bashing thread.

My point isn't that someone should buy a Glock because it's cheaper and more practical.

My question is why someone would want two different types of handguns when it requires more training, more magazines, more holsters and will reduce proficiency with other handguns.

AR15s can be modified and one can own several but they will all still have the same manual of arms. Same cheek weld. They use the same parts and the same magazines and the same ammo.

Handguns don't. I don't see the point in owning several different types of handguns that are all wildly different. Sticking to one type (G17/19, M&P9, Hudson H9, etc) just makes sense from a muscle memory and self defense standpoint so I don't get the hype every time a new pistol is released (H9, FN 509, P320, XD-E) considering nearly everyone interested in them already has a handgun or several they are proficient with.

[Coal Dragger]

This is not a brand bashing thread.

My point isn't that someone should buy a Glock because it's cheaper and more practical.

My question is why someone would want two different types of handguns when it requires more training, more magazines, more holsters and will reduce proficiency with other handguns.

AR15s can be modified and one can own several but they will all still have the same manual of arms. Same cheek weld. They use the same parts and the same magazines and the same ammo.

Handguns don't. I don't see the point in owning several different types of handguns that are all wildly different. Sticking to one type (G17/19, M&P9, Hudson H9, etc) just makes sense from a muscle memory and self defense standpoint so I don't get the hype every time a new pistol is released (H9, FN 509, P320, XD-E) considering nearly everyone interested in them already has a handgun or several they are proficient with.

Largely because skill is skill. For the most part the operational mechanics at the gross and fine motor skill level are the same between this Hudson and a Glock, or any other semi-auto pistol. If you train with any of them and have proficiency it won't take you long to learn the subtle differences of a new pistol and have it work just fine for you.

This largely appears to be a case of you not liking something, and as mentioned already, projecting that on others. We get it, you don't like this pistol, you prefer Glocks. Good for you.

The other arguments about ammo and training might have more merit when talking about a beginner. I suspect that most Hudson customers are probably not going to be beginners. Beginners have to be cajoled into spending the extra coin to get a decent pistol instead of a Taurus, or HiPoint, or some other garbage. So yeah for them, the extra money to buy ammo and training is money better spent.

For someone like you, or I, or other members here who have variously higher skill levels than a nugget shooter I don't see an issue in trying new pistols. If you can afford them have at it. I don't care if it is just for fun, I own several pistols in the just for fun or games category. I also own and use a Dillon XL650 progressive reloading press with a case feeder, so my views on ammo in relation to cost are probably a bit different than yours; definitely different than those of a shooter just starting out.

[MSparks909]

I apologize if I came across as bashing Eurodriver. That wasn't my intent; it seems I missed the original point of his post. I've since re-read the original and the follow-up, and have to disagree. It seems there's two distinct schools on self defense pistols...those shooters who train/practice/carry ONE brand/platform or whatever, and those shooters who own multiple different kinds of guns and enjoy shooting/training/carrying them all. I'm not gonna say one is right and one is wrong, but I don't think it's fair to assume that it's that difficult to go back and forth between platforms. There's a whole discussion in this over at PF and it's been enlightening to read. FWIW I predominantly own Glocks, 1911s, Beretta's and Sigs. I can go back and forth between Beretta (primary carry) and Sigs (and my lone HK P30) without issue. I don't fumble the controls and have no issues. If I get bored with those sometimes I'll carry 1911s for a few months. If I do that though, I bench everything else and focus solely on 1911s until I get bored with those and go back to Beretta or Sig. I shoot Glocks every once in a while.

What's funny is that a lot of people assume you can't go back and forth with different guns and shoot to a high level. For fun, I took my Beretta M9A3, P226 MK25 RX, Wilson 1911 and my G34 to the range the other day. I ran Defoor's pistol test #1 and passed it with every single one of those guns. Ran the tests back to back, with only enough time to paste targets and switch holsters. If you understand trigger control and know where your sights hit, it's not too hard to shoot well with all of them. I went from a DA/SA, to a DA/SA with a red dot, to a 1911 and ended with a Glock (TTI trigger bar; stock springs). The internet tells me this should be impossible. Yet I beg to differ. If someone can pass Defoor's pistol tests, they should have zero problems in a self defense situation.

[Outlander Systems]

For me, it's not a matter of performance metrics.

I don't have armorer support.
I don't enjoy guns as works of art/collectibles.
Multiple platforms offer zero advantages to me as a shooter.
Spare parts are on deck, ready to party.
My EDC is identical to my trainer, with a few minor exceptions. Trainer gets it's ass abused, EDC gets the dead skin/grime wiped off, and lubed once a month or so.

The only "off" gun I have is a 43 as a BUG/NPE gun.

Where I'm at, the only thing that tickles my pickle is picking up more cans for my existing gatpieces, and picking up more mags and ammo.

Different strokes for different folks, brosef.

What's funny is that a lot of people assume you can't go back and forth with different guns and shoot to a high level.

[Eurodriver]

For me, it's not a matter of performance metrics.

I don't have armorer support.
I don't enjoy guns as works of art/collectibles.
Multiple platforms offer zero advantages to me as a shooter.
Spare parts are on deck, ready to party.
My EDC is identical to my trainer, with a few minor exceptions. Trainer gets it's ass abused, EDC gets the dead skin/grime wiped off, and lubed once a month or so.

The only "off" gun I have is a 43 as a BUG/NPE gun.

Where I'm at, the only thing that tickles my pickle is picking up more cans for my existing gatpieces, and picking up more mags and ammo.

Different strokes for different folks, brosef.

Yeah that.

Sorry for the derailment. Curious to see what these things are thought of when they are in the hands of the public (genuinely mean that - not being snarky)

http://primaryandsecondary.libsyn.com/ps-modcast-61-10-one-gun

Listening to 3:00-4:30 is a good representation where my perspective is coming from. (Thanks OS for the link)

[PattonWasRight]

I think many us own guns that are used only for the experience of owning it and for entertainment purposes at the range.

That doesn't mean we train with those guns intensely or even at all for SD purposes, but more of a fun diversion / hobby.

I understand your point about keeping one's "wiring" fresh & consistent for SD purposes, but I think your post comes across as something we must not do to any degree, and hence folks' reaction.

I drive a manual transmission car for example. That's a fair amount of "wiring" to do that, smoothly at least. I don't feel my occasional trips in the wife's slushbox transmission put my manual transmission skills at risk.

To your point, different cars with manual transmissions def have a different feel to them, so there is some adjustment time to drive them smoothly.

So, it's a matter of degree in my mind, and not an 'either or'

[Coal Dragger]

I apologize if I came across as bashing Eurodriver. That wasn't my intent; it seems I missed the original point of his post. I've since re-read the original and the follow-up, and have to disagree. It seems there's two distinct schools on self defense pistols...those shooters who train/practice/carry ONE brand/platform or whatever, and those shooters who own multiple different kinds of guns and enjoy shooting/training/carrying them all. I'm not gonna say one is right and one is wrong, but I don't think it's fair to assume that it's that difficult to go back and forth between platforms. There's a whole discussion in this over at PF and it's been enlightening to read. FWIW I predominantly own Glocks, 1911s, Beretta's and Sigs. I can go back and forth between Beretta (primary carry) and Sigs (and my lone HK P30) without issue. I don't fumble the controls and have no issues. If I get bored with those sometimes I'll carry 1911s for a few months. If I do that though, I bench everything else and focus solely on 1911s until I get bored with those and go back to Beretta or Sig. I shoot Glocks every once in a while.

What's funny is that a lot of people assume you can't go back and forth with different guns and shoot to a high level. For fun, I took my Beretta M9A3, P226 MK25 RX, Wilson 1911 and my G34 to the range the other day. I ran Defoor's pistol test #1 and passed it with every single one of those guns. Ran the tests back to back, with only enough time to paste targets and switch holsters. If you understand trigger control and know where your sights hit, it's not too hard to shoot well with all of them. I went from a DA/SA, to a DA/SA with a red dot, to a 1911 and ended with a Glock (TTI trigger bar; stock springs). The internet tells me this should be impossible. Yet I beg to differ. If someone can pass Defoor's pistol tests, they should have zero problems in a self defense situation.

Similar experience here. Bought a VP9 last year, put maybe 200 rounds through it to make sure it worked, and put in a match striker release spring, ran another 100 rounds to test function. Never owned a striker fired pistol before. Shot maybe 100 rounds through various striker fired guns in the 27 years or so had been shooting pistols (started age 10 before that. Bought a holster and mag carrier. Then about a week later ran it in a PatMac TAPS class. Won the pistol certificate of victory with it handily, shot a slightly tighter group with it than Mac did with his modded Glock (he can no longer make out a crisp front sight). Internet wisdom says this is impossible. I say training and skill will transfer between platforms that are nearly identical. Trigger control fundamentals don't change from pistol to pistol. Most controls are nearly always in the same location, so this part isn't hard either. Even the HK magazine release vs a conventional button style is easy, I can run either one on demand the mechanics are not that different. I could have run the wife's P320 and probably netted the same results. I could have bought a Glock and done the same thing. I could have run my HK45, or my P226 X5 for that matter and gotten similar (or better) results.

Now if you tasked me to run that class with my Benelli MP95E .22 match pistol that would be different. Aside from the trigger all the other controls are in different locations, and that would make me have to slow down for a moment to operate them. Probably still doable though.

[zachsm]

Yeah that.

Sorry for the derailment. Curious to see what these things are thought of when they are in the hands of the public (genuinely mean that - not being snarky)

http://primaryandsecondary.libsyn.co...-61-10-one-gun

Listening to 3:00-4:30 is a good representation where my perspective is coming from. (Thanks OS for the link)

The debate has been going on for a long time. It is all about different priorities and needs. From a purely utilitarian point of view, you're right. Logistically, I would have AR15s and Glocks all day long.

We are on a forum where many people have been shooting their entire lives on many different platforms effectively. Even though complete standardization seems to make sense, people buy a variety of handguns for many rationally-sound reasons that go beyond just collecting them.

[Zirk208]

These are shipping out now according to Hudson's Instagram postings. Anyone seen a real one out in the wild?

[1986s4]

These are shipping out now according to Hudson's Instagram postings. Anyone seen a real one out in the wild?

No, I have not and I was in a high end shop last week and another one yesterday. My AO is cosmopolitan enough and definitely 2nd amendment enlightened that we should see one when they come out. I like to look as I am thinking about a high capacity 9mm but I wasn't even thinking about the Hudson.
As far as shooting different systems goes I am of the spend your money as you wish camp. For me a simple AR15 with plenty of ammo [bought some yesterday] and magazines [ditto] combined with a quality optic are enough for me. I do like to compete and recently started 2 gun comp so I'm thinking a rifle upper might help, I'm very tall so I don't think the extra length will be awkward and will give me more room for longer arms. Or, maybe a magnified optic for my middle aged eyes but it will be one or the other, not both.

For a pistol I do not presently have a high cap 9mm but I do have lots of M9 mags and HK P-30 mags from a previous life so a Beretta or HK would seem logical. But I'm looking at a Beretta PX4, Glock Gen 5, MP2.0 compact as well. I presently shoot either a Colt Government or S&W 686 revolver, for me the DA trigger stroke is not an issue. I've held a Gen 5 Glock and I don't think the grip angle will be hard to adapt to, it reminds me of my 686. But a MP is angled much like my Colt .38 super.. Decisions...