M4Carbine history and the CZ

[ritepath]

I went to a funshow this past weekend....Since there was only 3 metal framed CZ's I decided I'd sale a Ruger I'd brought along but hadn't taken out of my pack and buy a 5" 2.0 I sold the Ruger and went to the vendor with 2.0's for 459 bucks....but as I held them for the 100th time that day (4 vendors had the FDE 5's) I just couldn't pull the trigger on it.

Why? Because I knew the Striker fired CZ is coming out, while my p-09 is the only plastic CZ I thought I'd ever need I've decided a p10 is a must. Or maybe a P-01 Tactical if I ever see one...My 75 makes me look like a marksman

[Pilot1]

A lot of my complaints aren't major. They're more like annoyances. The firing pin retaining pins broke after over 100k dry fires, the screws are no big deal, the P-01 sights are the sharp ones, and difficulty of racking the slide is subjective.

That's why the make a variety of guns. I like most of them! Everyone is a compromise, however.

[m4brian]

There ARE features I'd change if I were the chief engineer, but they are accurate, reliable, and ergonomic.

One key feature on all their hammer guns is the slide profile that MAKES THEIR guns shorter in overall height. Think about it - their full size gun (75B, SP01, Phantom, etc.) has the SAME ovreall height as a G17. With a 17 rd mag (MecGar), they are very close. For a hammer gun, this is VERY good. Everyone talks about the low bore axis, internal rails giving accuracy, etc. - but the kicker is the lighter slide and lower profile.

[KalashniKEV]

It is funny, but in researching some threads and CZ guns, I found that the tide has really turned on this forum WRT CZs.

CZ pistols have always been accurate, reliable, and ergonomic... along with carrying good capacity and at an excellent price.

SMEs who are SMEs and can evaluate new equipment with an open mind have always known this.

Lots of folks just repeat the same BS they heard, and we still suffer from this as a forum.

Pistol Discussion also tends to lag behind AR discussion and Rifle Discussion in general in terms of quality.

Probably there is some other forum out there on the vast interwebs where they have always recognized the excellence of CZ pistols but are only just now understanding that "Stick to the Ayyy, Beeeee, Ceeeees, son! Armalite! Bushmaster! Colt!" is the same exact nonsense.

[Firefly]

FWIW M4C actually got me to take the CZ plunge. I got a surplus for stupid cheap and think it is what the BHP shoukd have been. P10 has me interested as well. Same for the Shadow Tac II.

Some people go where the money is. Like Forrest Gump and the Ping Pong paddle.

The one gun I keep that is constantly on the chopping block is my P226.
Yet for years I heard people say how great it is.

[jpmuscle]

If nothing else I like the fact that CZ appears open to evolving platforms that competent shooters want. The p10 pretty much has everything we've all wanted in compact sidearm no?

[Lefty223]

CZ has a devoted following here, and the generally accepted reputation as utterly reliable, superbly accurate, and a great service pistol.

^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^ ... add me to that list! CZ75B owner since '97, 1,000 rounds downrange and 0 breakages and I can't recall if I ever had a failure to feed or extract, so I'm going to claim it hasn't.

Further, I bought one of the 1st Kadet 22LR kits w/ target sights and diamond-hone fitted it to my frame and in bullseye shooting indoors, I'll shoot scores w/in 5-points or so of my highly customized S&W m41 target pistol.

[sinister]

CZ pistols have always been accurate, reliable, and ergonomic... along with carrying good capacity and at an excellent price.

SMEs who are SMEs and can evaluate new equipment with an open mind have always known this.

Lots of folks just repeat the same BS they heard, and we still suffer from this as a forum.

Pistol Discussion also tends to lag behind AR discussion and Rifle Discussion in general in terms of quality.

Probably there is some other forum out there on the vast interwebs where they have always recognized the excellence of CZ pistols but are only just now understanding that "Stick to the Ayyy, Beeeee, Ceeeees, son! Armalite! Bushmaster! Colt!" is the same exact nonsense.

If you pick up and actually read one of those relics called a book many folks might be shocked to read even someone like Jeff Cooper gave the weapon very high marks in the olden days when the weapon had to be bought in Europe (perhaps thru a military rod and gun club in US Army Europe - Germany). Hoops were many because the source was a Warsaw Pact nation, but the CZ-75 was complimented for its fit, finish, and function marks.

Tanfoglio of Italy cloned the weapon and thousands came into the US via Springfield Armory and EAA.

[m4brian]

I bought my first about 1989. Thought I would go after DA/SA with a P01, but couldn't get over the gritty DA pull. I have a preB and a nonB that have glass like DA pulls and of course they are reliable and accurate.

On the critical side: the trigger system with its natural staging of the hooks by design, and grit in execution is lackluster in feel. My SP 2022 has a better OTB feel than any CZ I've ever picked up. So, refined triggers in STD models, OTB, they do not have. Shootable YES. Refined, NO. In fact, I like the Tanfoglio triggers better in refinement and the fact that they don't have roll pins in the slide. The Omega addresses some of this OTB. But, they are very shootable.

Their overall design and function are superb, and today there is good CS, as well as an aftermarket. Ten years ago that was not the case. I'm not looking for an SF gun right now, but if I were it would be a P10. It looks like they actually thought that through well.

[Pilot1]

If nothing else I like the fact that CZ appears open to evolving platforms that competent shooters want. The p10 pretty much has everything we've all wanted in compact sidearm no?

I think it has everything, within reason, that someone who wants, a striker fired, polymer pistol wants. For us that don't want that, their metal framed, hammer fired pistols are available.