Scout Rifle Qs

[SamM]

He highly recommended the Scout scope but it was not a requirement. He also advocated a low power optic. Both of which I abandoned on my rifle. The 3-9X Patrol works great for my use. I plan to use the 1.25-4X Patrol on my AUG.

His thoughts were quicker target acquisition and much faster follow up shots would make a Scout rifle, the perfect 1-gun solution for hunting and tactical use. If a man only had one weapon what would he have? The .308W Scout was his solution.

SamM

[1859sharps]

My understand of what Cooper was going for with scopes was "ghost ring" in a scope.... I will keep working on a better way to explain it...but that is all I can come up with right now.

From what I have read, Cooper LOVED ghost rings. But he also like how scopes draw the eye to the reticle and target. He wanted to be able to keep both eyes open for situational awareness, and be able to shift from looking around back to the scope and be able to find your target and engage quickly.

At the time of his writings through his death, he felt the fixed low power forward of the receiver mounted scope was the best way to achieve the goals he was after and so heavily promoted it...so much so people think it's the only scope you can have. There are many scopes and red dot options today that were NOT in existence prior to his death that seem promising in achieving what he was going for. But as you increase magnification, you start loosing the benefits of what he was going for with the low fixed power scope with a wide field of view.

So for what it is worth...my opinion given what I know to date is that any scope that allows you to keep both eyes open while looking around and allows you to quickly align sights when needing to shoot, and gives generous field of view, is a "scout scope".

because of my eyes, I am planning on experimenting with some of the 1 x 4 powered options out there.

Slings.
Cooper REALLY believed in shooting slings, or at least that is my impression from his writings. again, he felt the CW then later then later the Ching sling achieved what he was going for. A sling that was a genuine shooting aid in the tradition of the 1907 sling found on the 03 springfields, but was faster to "loop up".

Do you have to use a CW or Ching...no of course not. they are good slings, but any shooting sling that actually helps shoot steadier and is quick to "loop up" will work.

shooting scouts at public rifle ranges.
nothing wrong with it, but shooting from the bench wasn't the goal. so if a scout is properly built nothing about it favours shooting from a bench. everything he was going for was intended to make shooting in the field, from field positions easier thus making you more successful in hitting your target.

I have noticed with my rifle when I leave the bench and shoot from field type positions such as prone, sitting, kneeling, standing etc, this in addition to mounting the rifle correctly also reduces the discomfort of shooting such a light rifle.

Concept vs the literal means Cooper implemented and promoted

sometimes people get too stuck on the literal choices he made and promoted, such as the forward mounted scope. I am of the opinion that we are better off figuring out what he was going for and why, then sticking to that concept vs thinking that the literal choices he made are the only way and forever carved in stone and never to be deviated from.

so my two cents....learn the concept, try and understand why he prompted something such as the forward mounted scope. if you do that, then you be able to know if the alleged better mouse trap is really a better mouse trap. Can make your own choices for something on the scout rifle (such as scope or sling) while not loosing anything of the over all goal.

[Bluto]

I too gave up on the forward mount scope. I really tried to like it, but it just didn't work for me. Maybe because I've become so accustomed to a traditional setup. My ideal setup ended up being a low power leupold scope in the traditional position using the factory rings.

I have a surefire socom flash hider on it as I sometimes use it suppressed. I haven't used it suppressed lately as it kind of defeats the short and compact nature of the rifle.

I also have an Andy's leather Rhodesian sling and highly recommend it.

+1 on the polymer magazines. They are much smoother than the metal ones.

Only drawback to the Ruger is that you lose the rear sight if you use the factory rings. Not an issue if the scope is forwarded mounted on the rail, but it would be nice to shoot with irons once in a while.

[WillBrink]

I too gave up on the forward mount scope. I really tried to like it, but it just didn't work for me. Maybe because I've become so accustomed to a traditional setup. My ideal setup ended up being a low power leupold scope in the traditional position using the factory rings.

I have a surefire socom flash hider on it as I sometimes use it suppressed. I haven't used it suppressed lately as it kind of defeats the short and compact nature of the rifle.

I also have an Andy's leather Rhodesian sling and highly recommend it.

+1 on the polymer magazines. They are much smoother than the metal ones.

Only drawback to the Ruger is that you lose the rear sight if you use the factory rings. Not an issue if the scope is forwarded mounted on the rail, but it would be nice to shoot with irons once in a while.

I'm speculating, but I suspect it depends on what you're trying to achieve no? The forward position seems faster to acquire a site picture while keeping both eyes open for fastest shot on a threat using the low power scope, vs precision shooting per se. It also allows the use of loading from the top using stripper clips or one at a time. Not an expert here, but that seems the only advantage of the forward mount visually, and although it's very doubtful you/I would ever load additional rnds from the top, that's the added benefit if I understand Cooper's stuff having just looked it up. I'd think for hunting and such, where one expects to have adequate time to firm of the site picture, and no intentions of ever loading from the top, the traditional position makes the most sense. It does not look at cool however

Makes sense?

[1859sharps]

Will, from what I have learned and read you are on the right track with your understanding of the forward mounted scope.

here is a good thread that goes into how to mount the scope, and other documentation about the ideas and information behind the forward mounted scope. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=4850.0

personally, in the ideal I will like to stay with the forward mounted scope if at all possible. but if that turns out to not be possible due to my eyes, I will try and find something that gives me as close to the same feature/functionality as the forward mounted scope as possible.

[Bluto]

I'm speculating, but I suspect it depends on what you're trying to achieve no? The forward position seems faster to acquire a site picture while keeping both eyes open for fastest shot on a threat using the low power scope, vs precision shooting per se. It also allows the use of loading from the top using stripper clips or one at a time. Not an expert here, but that seems the only advantage of the forward mount visually, and although it's very doubtful you/I would ever load additional rnds from the top, that's the added benefit if I understand Cooper's stuff having just looked it up. I'd think for hunting and such, where one expects to have adequate time to firm of the site picture, and no intentions of ever loading from the top, the traditional position makes the most sense. It does not look at cool however

Makes sense?

Yeah, you do get a slightly faster sight picture, but that's about it in my opinion. You hit the nail on the head with the rest of your speculations. I realized that loading rounds from the top wasn't realistically going to happen and I don't think I ever had to take a shot so fast that I didn't have enough setup time. If you are building a true "I can have only one gun so it must be a scout/battle rifle" with the intention of hunting and defense, then maybe it makes sense. I love the idea of that kind of setup. In fact, that was my original intention, but after actual hunting use I realized it just didn't work for me. But... I'm just a sample of one and many others seem to be happy with it...

[WillBrink]

So far so good. Ordered a Ching sling from Andy's leather.

After sighting in using a laser bore sight, I did 2 rnds at 100ft (max of the indoor range) off hand with both eyes open. No one would accuse me of being the next White Feather, that's for sure, but "good enough for gubment work" as they say. Need to get to the outdoor range and sight it in for 100 yards in the near future and get that group into center. First time using a laser bore sight.

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[1_click_off]

Looks like you found some ammo it likes. What are you shooting?

Mine hates 147gr PMC. Like 4" groups at 100yds. Looking to load 168gr amax soon. Been hearing good things about the 168amax and the scout combo.

[WillBrink]

Looks like you found some ammo it likes. What are you shooting?

Mine hates 147gr PMC. Like 4" groups at 100yds. Looking to load 168gr amax soon. Been hearing good things about the 168amax and the scout combo.

El cheapo American Eagle. I'd think at the distance I was shooting, you wouldn't see any noticeable differences in accuracy between rnds no?

[1_click_off]

I noticed a big difference at 100yd. I haven't shot in awhile, but like said earlier, 147gr PMC does not fair well in mine. I had a few boxes of various ammo last time out and some did really well. I would need to pull my log to see what did what, but the 147gr stuff was the least impressive.

I actually pulled my suppressor off thinking I may be getting baffle strikes. Just as bad of groups with no can.