John Wick shooting style

[WillBrink]

Agreed. I believe movies are solely responsible for the many misconceptions about terminal ballistics.

That look you get when you have to explain yet again that a shot gun does not actually cut people in half.

[elephant]

Collateral is a way different movie than John Wick:
First of all, Vincent didn't have any motivation for killing anyone, he had a job to do and he executed it professionally, John Wick was purely emotional, revenge was his motivation. In Collateral, we didn't even get to see the first 2 victims, the first guy landed on the cab, the second wasn't shown but we saw Vincent kill 2 tweekers while walking back to the cab. We see Vincent again kill the jazz club owner after discussing Miles Davis. Peter Lim as well as his private security were all killed in a nightclub along with 2 of Felix's security and a detective. John Wick killed at least 10 people in his house, 10 people in the club, 4 in the church, 5 in the parking lot, 5 in the safe house and a few others. I agree that John Wick used too many Judo moves and I find that unbelievable in a stressful environment where you are engaged by 8-10 people in a small area.

Heat was a lot better in my opinion just on plot but of coarse there is no way 4 bank robbers with F/A M16s can escape an entire police force on foot. Case in point is the N Hollywood shootout and they were wearing body armor. The accountant was decent, plot was good, story line sucked. I wouldn't risk my life for Anna Kendrick for any reason but people with Asperger's could have extreme knowledge and discipline in a certain area that they found comfort with. Sicario was a good movie all around, Triple 9 was another good movie

Its all Hollywood thought. Accuracy would bore us to death, that's why we watch movies and TV because reality is sub par for most.

[Firefly]

Actually, if you study up, the N. Hollywood robbers had committed several successful robberies prior to the shootout.

Their main mistake was they had no cogent plan or training. They had violence of action and firepower initially but got separated. With their weaponry and armor, had they any tactics then a lot of cops would be dead.


At that point in time it would have been entirely possible to at least buy time given the dearth of active shooter training of that era. Same with the Norco robbers.

I wouldn't be trying to ponder TTP from films where all guns fire blanks and everyone goes home after playing pretend.

If you can find it, look up some South African police footage. It's rather Wild Westy. Same with Colombian police footage. Nothing I would advocate stateside but if you want to see guys getting gunned down with FALs and Galils

[elephant]

they robbed an armored car prior and a small credit union, a VHS copy of Heat was found in there VCR after the shootout. Those guys were wanting to act out a movie they liked. They anticipated a shoot out, that's why they carried so much firepower. Too much luggage, no get away driver, just shooting 1100 rounds randomly. At least Robert DeNiro and Val Kilmer got away, they knew how to cover each other to move up.

[mrcarbine]

John Wick is fantasy and a comic book and absolutely no tactical lessons are to be gleaned from it. I actually peeped at my phone texting folks during a few parts of it.

Center Axis Relock is ninja turtle crap.

Doing the ninja high ready with finger off trigger spiel is sadly not exactly a display of competency.

I think the last movie that made me go "holy shit" and feel legitimately uncomfortable and maybe slightly bordering on panic attack was the vehicle takedown/gunfight at the beginning of End of Watch.

JW2 was merely two dirty words away from PG-13 and I'm not trying to be snotty but am curious why itvis being discussed in Training and Tactics.

JMAO
YMMV

i think it was a lot of fun to watch and there were a few things to learn. but it is misleading to think anyone can be that good no matter the training....hope some people realise it just a movie.

[WickedWillis]

John Wick is fantasy and a comic book and absolutely no tactical lessons are to be gleaned from it. I actually peeped at my phone texting folks during a few parts of it.

Center Axis Relock is ninja turtle crap.

Doing the ninja high ready with finger off trigger spiel is sadly not exactly a display of competency.

I think the last movie that made me go "holy shit" and feel legitimately uncomfortable and maybe slightly bordering on panic attack was the vehicle takedown/gunfight at the beginning of End of Watch.

JW2 was merely two dirty words away from PG-13 and I'm not trying to be snotty but am curious why itvis being discussed in Training and Tactics.

JMAO
YMMV

I think there is merit to continuing discussion of different retention training and techniques. I am always trying to learn positive and new tools for the toolbox. Realistically, as a civilian if I ever have to use my firearm in defense it's going to be in very close quarters.

Pretty much. Kind of. Sort of...

I took Dave Spaulding's Critical Space course two years ago. It wasn't quite so cinema-choreographed, but lot's of shooting from up close and personal. Very interesting course, and Dave's a good teacher. That course, and his Vehicle Combatives course were probably two of the most practical firearms self-defense courses I've ever taken.

Some fantastic stuff there. I would love to take his training course.

[WickedWillis]

John Wick is fantasy and a comic book and absolutely no tactical lessons are to be gleaned from it. I actually peeped at my phone texting folks during a few parts of it.

Center Axis Relock is ninja turtle crap.

Doing the ninja high ready with finger off trigger spiel is sadly not exactly a display of competency.

I think the last movie that made me go "holy shit" and feel legitimately uncomfortable and maybe slightly bordering on panic attack was the vehicle takedown/gunfight at the beginning of End of Watch.

JW2 was merely two dirty words away from PG-13 and I'm not trying to be snotty but am curious why itvis being discussed in Training and Tactics.

JMAO
YMMV

Collateral is a way different movie than John Wick:
First of all, Vincent didn't have any motivation for killing anyone, he had a job to do and he executed it professionally, John Wick was purely emotional, revenge was his motivation. In Collateral, we didn't even get to see the first 2 victims, the first guy landed on the cab, the second wasn't shown but we saw Vincent kill 2 tweekers while walking back to the cab. We see Vincent again kill the jazz club owner after discussing Miles Davis. Peter Lim as well as his private security were all killed in a nightclub along with 2 of Felix's security and a detective. John Wick killed at least 10 people in his house, 10 people in the club, 4 in the church, 5 in the parking lot, 5 in the safe house and a few others. I agree that John Wick used too many Judo moves and I find that unbelievable in a stressful environment where you are engaged by 8-10 people in a small area.

Heat was a lot better in my opinion just on plot but of coarse there is no way 4 bank robbers with F/A M16s can escape an entire police force on foot. Case in point is the N Hollywood shootout and they were wearing body armor. The accountant was decent, plot was good, story line sucked. I wouldn't risk my life for Anna Kendrick for any reason but people with Asperger's could have extreme knowledge and discipline in a certain area that they found comfort with. Sicario was a good movie all around, Triple 9 was another good movie

Its all Hollywood thought. Accuracy would bore us to death, that's why we watch movies and TV because reality is sub par for most.

The weapon manipulation and handling in Collateral seemed to me to be the most realistic of the films mentioned. But Mann does a good job at getting his actors training for their specific character.

[Defaultmp3]

I think there is merit to continuing discussion of different retention training and techniques. I am always trying to learn positive and new tools for the toolbox. Realistically, as a civilian if I ever have to use my firearm in defense it's going to be in very close quarters.

FWIW, CAR isn't very well looked upon over at TPI, which is Craig Douglas's own little forum. If that hivemind don't like CAR (as a system, anyway), then there's probably a good reason (being bladed constrains movement, the need to switch hands for different angles of approach, using the weak side eye to aim, etc.).

I'll also note that, despite loving the rest of the movie, the CAR was (hilariously) one of the first things they picked up on and criticized.

[WickedWillis]

FWIW, CAR isn't very well looked upon over at TPI, which is Craig Douglas's own little forum. If that hivemind don't like CAR (as a system, anyway), then there's probably a good reason (being bladed constrains movement, the need to switch hands for different angles of approach, using the weak side eye to aim, etc.).

I'll also note that, despite loving the rest of the movie, the CAR was (hilariously) one of the first things they picked up on and criticized.

What do you feel would be the best weapon retention training to pursue? I personally feel the CAR system would excel in a vehicle, but little else.

[Defaultmp3]

What do you feel would be the best weapon retention training to pursue? I personally feel the CAR system would excel in a vehicle, but little else.

My default response is to go take a Shivworks ECQC. Here is my AAR of my ECQC: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...-19-Houston-TX

I have not done too much other weapons-based combatives training, outside of a Tarani edged weapons course. However, people I respect all state that ECQC is at the top of the heap for that kind of stuff, and it was certainly by far the most eye-opening class for me by a long shot. It is the one class I recommend everyone take once they are safe and competent with a handgun. Paul Sharp and Cecil Burch also buy into the Shivworks methodology, and while most of their classes are little less handgun oriented, do work the use of handgun access into their classes (using blue guns, mostly).

Random anecdote. Couple weeks ago, a guy was asking folks if he would be better off taking ECQC or a Steve Fisher CHE. Fisher told the guy to take ECQC.