Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: 1911 9mm & +P+ Experience

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    central Texas
    Posts
    1,947
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    1911 9mm & +P+ Experience

    Today I was shooting my Colt Government Model in 9mm and decided to run a mag of Winchester 115 gr JHP +P+(RA9115HP+)through the pistol. On the 5th shot a stoppage occurred. When retracting the slide, I noticed that a much greater effort was required. Disassembly revealed that the ejector was bent to the left to such an extent that it was dragging on the slide. Once removed, the slide would not go back onto the frame because the ejector was bent too much to allow passage. The pistol is 100% stock and has the original 14 lb recoil spring.

    Having been a handgun shooter for decades, I understood that my old batch of hot law enforcement ammo would be hard on any pistol it was used in. However this time was the first event of damage from +P+ ammo. The other old school +P+ ammo in my stash is Federal 9BPLE, which I think (but can't prove) is loaded to a lower pressure than the Winchester. I've fired both rounds in numerous handguns in the past.

    I'm reporting the event to share the experience and am placing no blame on gun or ammo. There are custom ejectors that might withstand hot loads better, and certainly a stronger recoil spring is called for in such cases. My gunsmith will replace the original with an EGW version, and I may replace the recoil spring with a heavier one. In either case I won't abuse the old warhorse with hot ammo and will use standard pressure loads.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    8,431
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    Good report. It just sucks to have to cherry pick ammo for a gun.

    PB
    "Air Force / Policeman / Fireman / Man of God / Friend of mine / R.I.P. Steve Lamy"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mid-West, USA
    Posts
    2,811
    Feedback Score
    63 (100%)
    I almost feel like it's the opposite. So few types of 9mm are loaded that hot that you'd have to run them on purpose.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    central Texas
    Posts
    1,947
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I did a google search on bent ejectors. 9mm seems to have more, and causes are not clear. In some instances bending them back to original shape is a correction. Slamming mags in is a cause of upward bending but doesn't apply here. I learned that one or maybe two manufacturers use strong Loctite to anchor ejectors instead of pinning. Ugh.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    3,480
    Feedback Score
    58 (100%)
    If I'm running a steady diet of +P+ 9MM I'd sure consider a Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop and heavier mainspring.
    These two things will help control/slow slide velocity more than anything else.
    I can't help but think you had an ejector problem that would've showed up with, or without, the double hot 9mm.
    Consider having a .38 Super ejector installed.

    I have a couple "switch caliber" guns that have both 9mm and .38 Super slides/barrels.
    It's necessary to have a Super ejector for both calibers to function.
    The "nose" of the Super ejector is shorter- and therefore more robust than the long 9mm ejector.
    They work quite well in a 9mm.
    I think Wilson only offers this style ejector for 9mm/Super.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    65
    Feedback Score
    0
    I have never had an issue running "hot" ammo through my 9mm Colts. I have fired the Gold Dot 115 +P+ and 124 +P. Not 9mm but I routinely run 125gr 38 super's through a Colt moving at 1350 fps. Must have something to do with the 9mm ejector.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    central Texas
    Posts
    1,947
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Gaijin, after having studied the issue and then reading your post, I agree that "something was wrong" with my ejector to start with. One possibility is that it is a tad soft; another is that the sides of the ejector were not fitted to the slide with the result that slide pressure contributed to the bend; and another is that its long nose(as opposed to Wilson's version)contributed to bending. This last possibility was the first one that I thought of upon disassembly at the range.

    I'm primarily a cast bullet tin can roller and long range stunt shooter which means I'm one notch above a dirt clod shooter. Although I have a stack of decades shooting the 1911, I readily see that you are a serious 1911 user. Please explain to the guys here how a flat bottom firing pin stop retards slide velocity. My bet is that most are unaware of this fact.

    You are correct about the Wilson ejector, which I located after reading your post. I'm ordering one today.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    3,480
    Feedback Score
    58 (100%)
    Sure Willie.

    The FBFPS was JMB's original design.
    It was changed due to the troops bitching about the difficulty in racking the slide, to one with a substantial radius, making slide racking easier.
    The radius FPS gives a mechanical advantage when the slide contacts it, making it easier for slide to fully cock the hammer and/or makes moving the slide from "in battery", to fully reciprocated easier.
    Conversely; if you want to make it MORE DIFFICULT for the slide to reciprocate, to slow down the slide velocity- you take away that mechanical advantage by using a Flat Bottom Firing Pin Stop.
    The FBFPS also changes the recoil impulse. While this is subjective, I find this difference a good thing and have this type FPS on all of my 1911's.

    Many believe that slide velocity is controlled by recoil spring weight. This is a misconception.
    While increasing the recoil spring weight WILL add to slowing the slide down, it also adds to the force with which the slide closes. This will cause a more pronounced "muzzle dip" as the slide goes into battery.
    More benefit is gained by increasing the mainspring weight.
    The downside here is; increasing the MS weight can increase trigger pull weight. No free lunch.

    Example of FBFPS (Below).



    Most will take the sharp, 90 degree angle off, with something approaching a 1/64th radius.



    The now standard radiused FPS.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    central Texas
    Posts
    1,947
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Good explanation. About hammer spring weight. The Browning H.P's factory hammer spring weight is 32 lbs, the heaviest that I've ever seen. My opinion is that this weight was selected to help slow down the BHP's light slide. Some men with small hands have difficulty thumb cocking the BHP hammer and are at risk when lowering the hammer on a live round. You and I agree on the role of hammer spring weight in controlling slide velocity but not all agree. To me it's a no brainer.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    3,480
    Feedback Score
    58 (100%)
    Yes.
    The origanal BHP design also had a FBFPS and lighter hammer spring (I'm a P-35 guy too).
    The sweet spot for me is a 26# hammer spring with the FBFPS.
    With a good hammer/sear; Garthwaite, Warner, EGW - its possible to get a NICE trigger on a BHP.
    FWIW- original design had a lighter hammer spring than the current 32#, which is HEAVY, as you mention.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •