Revolver tactics/handling questions

[Ron3]

Could have sworn we had a revolver tactics thread but I didn't find it. Anyway:

-If you fire your revolver in SD, but you don't think it's empty and the threat isn't quite over yet what do you do with it? Attempt to reload it? Draw back up and holster/pocket partially emptied gun? Draw back up but keep partially empty gun in other hand?

- Should one fire at a rate any differently when the gun holds five or six shots vs a gun that holds nine, 15, etc?

- If your carrying a revolver in a pocket and another on your belt which should you draw first? I propose if you see a threat coming you can get your hand on the pocket gun. This should be the fastest draw should one be required. If you do not have any advanced warning the belt gun should be a faster draw than going for you pocket.

Also, should the second gun be needed, the belted gun would be faster to draw and easier to get to should you be in contact with your attacker (s). Thoughts?

[Zim]

In SASS competition, the offhand revolver is usually drawn first because it's easier to reholster with the offhand and draw the strong hand revolver simultaneously. Not entirely the same circumstance, but the logic behind it is similar enough to be applicable, I'd think.

[nml]

I have never heard of a successful revolver reload in a cqb gunfight.

[VARIABLE9]

Sub'd because I would like to see some of these answers for future reference.

[SGTMAJ]

I carry a model S&W 36 as a backup to my semi auto... some times I carry just the model 36 with a second model 36 as backup the old NY reload try to beat that. you cannot reload a revolver fast enough unless you are Jerry M

[Chameleox]

I have never heard of a successful revolver reload in a cqb gunfight.

Probably because in the last 30 years or so, the semiauto has taken over as the sidearm of choice for many daily carriers, and certainly for mil/le. These last years in particular are also the best record keeping years for this practice and industry, what with improved quality and quantity of training, advances in understanding of the psychology of the stress of combat/conflict, and improved record keeping.

While you've never heard of a successful revolver reload in a CQB gunfight (nor have I for that matter), it's not beyond the realm of possibility, and the simple logic is that police in the US were shooting people before the early 90s. I'm sure there were reloads.

The old Caliber Press Street Survival book series might have some information on close quarters revolver usage and reloading; IIRC, there are other books as well. There are also a number of trainers (primarily former LE types with service time dating back at least to the 80s) who have info on this area.

Counting rounds or adjusting fire rate sound dubious. It's well documented that this ability is frequently impaired during times of extreme stress, such as in a close quarters shooting. Despite your level of training, the brain can and does shut down some counting ability and other functions deemed non-essential to solving the problem of the bad man engaging you at close quarters. I wouldn't count on coolheadedly relying on your common sense telling you to slow down because you only have 5 rounds, especially if you don't practice with a five round limit with any regularity. Then again, you might be exceptionally well trained and stress-inoculated. I don't know you.

At the end of the day, though, if A: you're empty, and B: you don't have a second gun, then you need to figure it out, one way or another. Reload (preferably with good tactics), withdraw, throw your shoe, go hands on, whatever. Do something, and do so in a manner that you've rehearsed and practiced before the day comes.

An aside: you don't have to post in order to subscribe. There's an option in the menu above the first post on the page.

[Kain]

Regarding the combat reload on a revolver, wasn't one of the reasons for the MP5K due to a GSG9 hostage rescue where they made entry on an airplane and one of their point men was running a .38 subnose and ended up emptying it and then things getting complicated once he was dry? I know I am not remembering all of the details at all, but I think the food for thought should be there.

That said, if you are carrying a revolver I'd practice reloading it under stress, as well as possibly reloading in less than ideal positions. I don't even carry a damn revolver and I'll still break out revolvers from time to time to work with including speed reloads. That said, I am more interested in further discussion here from a more academic perspective, I carry a ****ing glock 19 with a 17rd reload. But, I keep trying to convince myself I need another subnose.

[SeriousStudent]

I work with revolvers a lot. I always have a J-frame or two on me.

In fact, this week I am doing a pistol class with a pair of J-frames, shooting weak hand only. As opposed to my other weak hand.

To try and assist with the OP's questions, in no particular order:

I draw and shoot the one I can shoot the fastest. If it's a revolver and I am standing, it's almost certainly going to be the 342 in my left front pocket. The reason why, is that I will already have my hand on it.

If I seated, I have a 642 on my left ankle. I can get to that very quickly when seated or driving. I practice that - a lot.

I want to shoot with the firearm that is quickest into action. Statistically speaking, the first person to get a good hit wins the fight, about 90 percent of the time. That's from Tom Givens, who has studied gunfights for about 40 years. Do yourself a big favor, and attend a class of his. He is superb.

Regarding what to do with a half-empty gun and a continuing threat - draw the next weapon. I always carry a reload - I just wrap a J-frame around it as a protective coating. I'd also recommend doing some reading with Michael de Bethancourt. He's probably the best guy around on reloading snubs. Practice the "load two - shoot two drill". If you can carry one revolver, you can almost certainly carry a second.

How fast do you shoot? I would quote Jack Leuba (Failure2Stop) "As accurate as needed, as fast as possible, as many times as it takes."

Practice headshots like a religion. Put a 1" target paster on the headbox, and put a B-8 repair center over the chest. Strive to put all your rounds into that 1" paster on headshots, and inside the 10-ring at 5 yards, and the X-ring at 3 yards.

People tend to quit bitching at you if you put a bullet in their eye socket.

[jabba21]

- If you fire your revolver in SD, but you don't think it's empty and the threat isn't quite over yet what do you do with it? Attempt to reload it? Draw back up and holster/pocket partially emptied gun? Draw back up but keep partially empty gun in other hand?

- Should one fire at a rate any differently when the gun holds five or six shots vs a gun that holds nine, 15, etc?

- If your carrying a revolver in a pocket and another on your belt which should you draw first? I propose if you see a threat coming you can get your hand on the pocket gun. This should be the fastest draw should one be required. If you do not have any advanced warning the belt gun should be a faster draw than going for you pocket.

Also, should the second gun be needed, the belted gun would be faster to draw and easier to get to should you be in contact with your attacker (s). Thoughts?

- If the threat isn't over, why aren't you still firing? You should be firing until the threat is over or until you are empty.

- You should fire at the rate at which you can put good ACCURATE shots on target to vital areas, regardless of your guns capacity.

- I don't even know what you're asking here. Do you even carry two guns all the time? Draw your primary gun first. Then draw your backup gun should you need it. Whatever and wherever they may be. Train that way and you will fight that way.


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[MistWolf]

Look up Bill Jordan. He wrote about a revolver reload he did during a gunfight where the empties ended up in his pocket without him remembering how they got there.

CHP Officer James Pence was found dead with six empties laying on the ground where he reloaded his revolver in an attempt to continue the fight before he was murdered in what is called "The Newhall Incident"