Revolver tactics/handling questions

[T2C]

Thanks 26 Inf. I use the thumb of the support hand to eject spent brass similar to the technique JM demonstrated and use the shooting hand to insert a Comp III speed loader in competition. I do not teach this technique in a class, because I feel there is more room for error than using the strong hand technique.

I teach students to:

1) Hold the revolver in the strong hand and apply pressure to the cylinder release with the right thumb on a S&W or left thumb on a Colt.

2) Push the cylinder open with the two middle fingers of the support hand and trigger finger while tilting the muzzle up to approx. 12 O'clock with the butt facing the support side shoulder.

3) Strike the end of the ejector rod with the meaty area on the support hand where the knife edge and palm meet. The knife edge of the left hand slides alongside the barrel and the trigger finger maintains pressure on the cylinder while doing this.

4) Shift the revolver to the support hand with the two middle fingers pushed through the frame and holding the cylinder open and lowering it to belt level while reaching for a speed loader or speed strip with the strong hand. The muzzle is tilted down between 4 and 6 O'clock,

5) Rotate the cylinder slightly with the support hand thumb and middle fingers while the strong hand guides the speed loader or speed strip to the cylinder. (There are different techniques for manipulating the loading device depending on type, HKS or Safariland speed loader or Speed Strip.)

6) Close the cylinder with the support hand thumb while the strong hand acquires a firing grip.

This takes more time, but as you pointed out the primary concern is reliable ejection and reloading.

I've played with moon clips on a borrowed revolver and could cut my reload time down considerably if the clips were positioned on a belt carrier like JM was wearing in the video. Stored in a pocket, I don't have a significant advantage over a good speed loader and I am not going to wear a rig like JM was wearing for concealed carry.

For anyone considering a moon clip conversion on their revolver, Tom Kilhoffer does nice work. http://www.tkcustom.com/content/contact_us.asp

[Gunnar da Wolf]

I have used /taught the support hand thumb and the support hand palm to work the ejector in the past. For the last decade or so I've been opening the cylinder with support hand fingers while rotating the muzzle to 12:00, my strong hand releases the revolver and obtains the speedloader. I then hammer the ejector with the heel of my strong hand while holding the speedloader, rotate the muzzle back down and insert the cartridges. Safariland loader "clicks!", I release it and close the cylinder while obtaining a firing grip.

Back in the day some .357 ammo was pretty sticky and I've been known to use the speedloader (HKS back then) to pound on the extractor. Those first L frames with Remington 125gr JHP ammo could be frustrating. For some reason my various .44 Mag and .45 Colt revolvers don't seem to suffer from this.

[plain old dave]

Only real difficulty I could see with rapid reload on a 45LC DA revolver is the vestigial case rim can jump the extractor star. This was enough of an issue to make Frankford Arsenal redesign the 1909 45 case for the Colt New Service with a slightly larger diameter rim. I don't know of any 1909 spec 45 Colt brass currently manufactured.

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[ST911]

My preference, esp for Js/LCR/etc-

[T2C]

Good stuff ST911. I typically use the technique similar to what Massad Ayoob teaches, but I use the knife edge of the left hand to strike the end of the ejector rod to avoid damaging a part of the hand that would affect grip strength.

The technique Mr. de Bethencourt teaches would be a great one to teach someone starting with revolver shooting. I would have to carry speed loaders on the opposite side of my body than where I carry them during competition, so I use a different technique to maintain some consistency.

I started rotating the cylinder slightly 30 + years ago to aid in clearing the left grip while inserting cartridges. I learned through trial and error and do not know if anyone else teaches the technique.

[SeriousStudent]

Michael de Bethancourt is a solid dude, and a great revolver trainer and shooter. It has been my pleasure to have him as a guest in my home, and learn from him on the range.

As if he needed any more validation, I was at the Rangemaster Tactical Conference this weekend, and his name came up repeatedly. Chuck Haggard, who is definitely no slouch with a wheelgun, also recommends him highly.

[Wildcat]

In the above video, deBethancourt includes a motion to remove the (hopefully empty) speedloader.

The loader -should- simply wipe off once the cartridges drop home into the chambers. The cartridges can bind in the loader if things are off axis. If you actively pull the loader away from the cylinder, it can fail to deliver its full contents to the cylinder correctly. We had a guy who would grab the body of the loader (Safariland) to sort of toss it clear as he finished the reload. More than once he wound up with a mostly full cylinder after a reload because one cartridge came away with the loader. Embarrassing on the range but it could have been worse in other circumstances.

[VARIABLE9]

My preference, esp for Js/LCR/etc-

I like that. Practice makes perfect though. I see the challenges others are stating as concerns.

[Ron3]

When nobody is there to provide cover fire for you, your gun is empty and the threat still exists, it's a bad situation.

Finding cover, concealment, or at least move is what you need to do while performing an emergency reload.

Having to reload a revolver makes this much harder. (and more likely) A second gun really is preferable to reloading a revolver during a threat.

I've been working on this and that is the conclusion I've come to. I found my other pocket gun, a Beretta Jetfire .25, is faster and more consistent to reload than my revolvers. (plus 8+1)

I don't think I'm going forward with dual revolver carry. At least one gun needs to be faster to reload. I wonder how many folks carry spare mags for their pocket pistol? (another thread)

[T2C]

Good point Ron3. Back in the days when revolvers reigned people would carry at least one back up revolver in an ankle holster, sometimes one on each ankle.

I typically carry one firearm when carrying concealed to protect myself and family and train accordingly. It may not be the best practice, but most people I know do not carry two. I am a firm believer in carrying an edged weapon that can be accessed with the non-firing hand.

My last BG38 was worn close to the point of being unserviceable, so I sold it. The wife won't let me have the Model 60, so I'll have to wait until the replacement BG38 arrives to practice Mr. de Bethencourt's technique with a small revolver. I'll take a few hundred rounds to the range and see how I perform the technique on the timer and shake out the best place to carry a speed loader or speed strip. Perhaps a road trip is in order to take Mr. de Bethencourt's course.