Revolver tactics/handling questions

[Ron3]

Good info.

I agree that slowing down rate of fire on a double - action gun (or auto) isn't going to happen in the heat of things. Most people (and me) will shoot until threat is obviously over or the gun is empty.

Unless there is a significant pause in the fight (or you have friends covering you) there probably won't be a revolver reload going on. A second gun or knife would be better. (If retreat isn't an option)

If there is a pause and I don't think the first gun is empty, the 2nd gun should be drawn and used next. If I'm sure the first gun is empty it should be dropped and 2nd gun drawn. (Unless of course a clean retreat can be made)

Yes I almost always carry two guns. Even if if one is a double-stack auto.

I agree with going with the faster draw first. No warning; belt gun will be faster. With warning; hand on pocket gun and drawing that will be faster.

[CAVDOC]

Like anything else it comes down to practicing for any scenario you can think up. Reloading a revolver if you are practiced at it takes maybe a faction of a second longer than reloading an auto. If the standard mantra these days is fire seek cover and reassess then once to cover reload the revolver. Keep in mind also ( let's say you are using a speed strip) or fumble with a speed loader you still end up with a partial reload which at any time you can close the cylinder and return fire with whatever is on tap. While I see lots of people showing speed strips they carry with j frames loaded with only 5 rounds, based on my experience I always carry them with six anticipating a possible fumble of a round in the loading process. When possible I try to carry a speed loader or two as well.
Keep in mind also the high high percentage of civilian armed encounters are done in less than four shots as well.

[Ron3]

I decided on six rounds per eight round speed strip and just loading two at a time.

If carrying two revolvers I don't think I'll carry more than one loading strip. (Doesn't hurt to leave one or two more in the vehicle)

[nml]

I too anticipate a fumble in the reloading process. I am darn awful with speed strips. not even an option. SeriousStudent said best, "I always carry a reload - I just wrap a J-frame around it as a protective coating".

Keep in mind also the high high percentage of civilian armed encounters are done in less than four shots as well.

I think it may even be less. but from those more knowledgeable the average is misleading due to psychological stops, where they take one hit decide they don't want the fight.

Actual handgun gunfights i've heard about do not involve 2 or 3 or 4 shots short of magical CNS hit. Sgt Gramins has a great story. that was only 1 assailant. Didn't end until his 33rd shot. CNS. https://www.policeone.com/patrol-iss...mo-on-the-job/

Not that I am all about capacity. Expansion in 38 SPL is not always what I would like it to be. I think I've discussed that w some of you on here. But it has shown to expand and penetrate more often than not. Throwing 110 gr bullets close to 1000 is better than 380 with 90 gr close to 900. So I will give up the two shots (in addition to the other negatives of a pocket auto).
I don't think a j frame will be enough for a gunfight. Same story with my 18 round Glock. And I don't care one bit. You make the hits with what you have on you. Violence of action.

[Lost River]

First off, I am a big believer in a large capacity semi auto handgun for a day to day sidearm, and personally prefer the G19/G17/G34.

I also have been a long time proponent of the BUG, in my case, that is my 442, that is carried in a weakside front pocket.


Now with that out of the way, there are many days that I have been out on the desert or in the mountains and am carrying a revolver, usually a .44 magnum of some sort. I simply choose the appropriate load for the role.

Playing with full wadcutters in the 44 has been quite fun. They cut large holes in whatever they hit, and penetration is excellent. Plus they are easy to shoot well, quickly. That said, a major downfall is that even with a speedloader, they can be a bit slower to reload as compared to an SWC.




Odds are favorable though that if I had to use it for defense against human criminal aggressors, that it may not take too many hits to do the job.

[Black_Sheep]

As a civilian who carries a revolver for self defense, my tactics would be quite different than a LEO or someone in a combat situation. The gun would be used to stop an immediate, unavoidable threat or to break contact, not get into a protracted gunfight. With that in mind, I rarely carry a reload. Participating in the weekly steel challenge competition at the local gun club has taught me to make every shot count, focusing on shot placement, even if it's at a slightly slower rate of fire. Under ideal conditions, each reload adds a minimum 6-8 seconds to my time.

[T2C]

Most people who carry a small revolver for self defense do not carry a second revolver.

If you feel there is still an imminent threat, it would be unwise to reload. If there is a lull in the fight and you feel there is no imminent threat get behind hard cover, reload two rounds in the cylinder using the heads up technique, assess, replace the remaining spent rounds, reassess, move on. Remember to be prepared to close the cylinder and engage quickly with whatever live rounds are in the revolver during the reloading cycle.

Do you practice drills like these during your weekly training cycles? Do you have an edged weapon available on the opposite side of your body from where you carry your revolver? Do you train with your edged weapon as often as you train with your revolver?

[26 Inf]

Wow, these are things I haven’t thought about for a long time.

From the LE perspective, back when I started training revolvers one of the drivers of tactics was whether the officer carried speed loaders, speed strips, or straight dump pouches. Fortunately, before I got too far into the game, dump pouches essentially disappeared.

Essentially the question the officer had to answer regarding tactics with speed loaders was: ‘do I reload during a lull in the action and dump live rounds, or continue with a partially loaded revolver?’ I was in the reload during the lull camp.

Hearsay evidence of multiple hammer strikes on primers after gunfights lead myself and numerous other trainers to believe that often officers had no idea how many rounds they had fired, the officer may think they have two or three rounds left and the revolver may well be empty.

With speed strips, or out of pocket reloads it was essential that the officer had it pounded into their head that a revolver will shot with just one round loaded. The recreations of the Newhall Incident that I had seen and read indicated that Officer Pence lost SA while trying to fully load his revolver – as was the training at the time – and was shot while trying to completely load.

As a result we practiced one and two round reloads from empty with the focus being able to get one or two rounds into the weapon, indexing first round at 1:00 on Smith’s, and IIRC, Rugers; 11:00 on Colt’s. We did this even though most officers didn’t carry loose rounds. Our reasoning was speed loaders can malfunction. The Dade’s and early HKS twist knob loaders were sometimes problematic in this area.

For partial reloads with loose rounds or speed strips we trained officers to slightly raise the ejector star and pluck the spent rounds out, then replace. Some instructors trained to raise the ejector star and then let it down, thinking that the fired cases would be slightly swollen and remain partially ejected.

This practice kept the officer’s attention focused on the revolver for an extended period, so we emphasized bringing the head up and scanning during the process and also gave fire commands mid-process to ensure they could release the ejector rod, thumb the cases down and get into action.

The problem with all this ‘fancy’ manipulation during partial reloads, or even full reloads from the pockets is that they use a lot of fine motor skills that the officer probably won’t have available in a survival stress situation. The process of rolling the loose rounds down the fingers in the proper orientation was difficult for most officers with just stop watch stress which is nothing compared to gunfight stress

That plus the fact that even a single grain of powder under the ejector star can bind the revolver up. The best reload for a revolver is another revolver.

As a side note, in 2001 our Academy made the decision to quite allowing revolvers during basic training.

[Det-Sog]

As a side note, in 2001 our Academy made the decision to quite allowing revolvers during basic training.

Ahhh... Memories. Those of us old enough to start with wheel guns back when they were the norm really lived through a different era.

Our academy did not "disallow" revolvers. Around 1992 though, they made the time requirements to get X amount of accurate rounds downrange VERY short for primary duty weapons. Word was out that unless you practiced speed-loading every day, you would more than likely fail to qualify. By then "most" in the department were carrying autos, but this pushed the few old timers into making the switch.

Just think guys... It used to be normal to walk around with 18 rounds total on you, with maybe 5 in a BUG. Obviously there were more in the car, but that did you no good once you walked away from it. Now, 18 rounds of well placed .357 Mag will do the job. The only scenario I lost sleep over was if I ever had to deal with multiple armed bad guys at the same time. When I was able to switch to a Sig P226 after they were released, I started sleeping much better. No one knew what Sig was back then... Yeah... I know...

I'm going full circle here. I have a M&P shield as well as a few mid-sized options, but with summer coming, I am longing for another S&W Air weight .38 to just pocket carry. Never underestimate the versatility of the good old j-frame.

[T2C]

Wow, these are things I haven’t thought about for a long time.

From the LE perspective, back when I started training revolvers one of the drivers of tactics was whether the officer carried speed loaders, speed strips, or straight dump pouches. Fortunately, before I got too far into the game, dump pouches essentially disappeared.

For partial reloads with loose rounds or speed strips we trained officers to slightly raise the ejector star and pluck the spent rounds out, then replace. Some instructors trained to raise the ejector star and then let it down, thinking that the fired cases would be slightly swollen and remain partially ejected.

The problem with all this ‘fancy’ manipulation during partial reloads, or even full reloads from the pockets is that they use a lot of fine motor skills that the officer probably won’t have available in a survival stress situation. The process of rolling the loose rounds down the fingers in the proper orientation was difficult for most officers with just stop watch stress which is nothing compared to gunfight stress

This is the reason I was trained by an experienced revolver shooter/instructor to load two rounds from a Speed Strip and not loose rounds during a partial reload. Ideally a quick full cylinder reload during a lull in a fight when the current threat is neutralized would be ideal, but having a limited number of cartridges on hand makes the issue of ammunition management critical.