Did someone hold your hand the first time you attempted to get a stamp?

[Ron3]

7.65 mm is what we call .32 acp. Euro spec stuff is hotter of course. Typically 940-1040 fps for Geco/Fiocchi/S&B 73 gr fmj from the nearly 4 inch barrel of the Beretta. In other words just subsonic.

Take away 100 fps for American ammo and another 100 fps if fired from the 2 inch barrel pocket guns. Roughly.

[Striker6]

What research did you complete that led you to the conclusion that you can't suppress subsonic ammo to hearing safe levels?

[Ron3]

What research did you complete that led you to the conclusion that you can't suppress subsonic ammo to hearing safe levels?

Searched several forums and this was a common question.

Users reported that it's probably okay for a few rounds but not a day's worth of shooting. That what was 156 DB is now lower, but is still 130 DB (Very roughly).

[EODbusch]

Lol...

You sir, are finding all the wrong answers in all the wrong places. You sound sold on not getting a suppressor anymore, but if you change your mind down the road you need to do a bit more research from reputable sources.

[SteyrAUG]

7.65 mm is what we call .32 acp. Euro spec stuff is hotter of course. Typically 940-1040 fps for Geco/Fiocchi/S&B 73 gr fmj from the nearly 4 inch barrel of the Beretta. In other words just subsonic.

Take away 100 fps for American ammo and another 100 fps if fired from the 2 inch barrel pocket guns. Roughly.

Yeah....no.

I shoot .380, 7.65mm and 9mm suppressed all the time. Handguns and subguns. So long as you have a decent suppressor, it's absolutely hearing safe. Sometimes the bolt flying is the loudest part of it and you can hear rounds impact the target in some cases.

I'd even call suppressed 5.56 hearing safe if you are directly behind the firearm. Even supersonic, it cracks about like a .22 lr which isn't very loud.

Now will your neighbors hear it? Yep, it will probably sound like you are shooting a pellet gun. If you are shooting something like steel plates it will definitely be loud (and annoying) to your neighbors. There are very few guns that are Hollywood "pewt" quiet. Some integral .22s and the MP5SD come to mind, but the bolt running sounds like a really loud IBM selectric typewriter from the 80s.

Most suppressed handguns sound like a nail gun. You hear it, but it doesn't really sound like a gun shot unless there is an associated impact sound. It's annoying just like when your neighbor is running a nail gun all day, but unless they see it or hear impacts on steel plates, nobody is going to think "gun."

[Ron3]

I've fired a Mac machine gun that was suppressed (.45) and been around many suppressed centerfire rifles (competition). None were hearing safe. Our suppressed work rifles aren't either. My buddy has an hk mk 23 he just got an Osprey (pretty sure) for it. I recall him saying he still wears ears. It's causing stoppages as well.

I believe one the forums I checked was "silencertalk". I checked other places, too. It was repeated that suppressed centerfire pistols aren't as quiet as people expect and many users reported they still wear ear pro. Reliability issues were also common.

I'd hate to spend the time and money to be disappointed. Most of the money isn't recoverable. Might as well stock the ammo another row deep. (I stock and shoot)

Right now I think it makes more sense to suppress a rifle. But then it needs a short barrel to avoid being a musket and i hate neutering 5.56 with a short barrel. Lately I only shoot a rifle to test it/ammo/zero it for the very occasional 2 gun match.

[SteyrAUG]

I've fired a Mac machine gun that was suppressed (.45) and been around many suppressed centerfire rifles (competition). None were hearing safe. Our suppressed work rifles aren't either. My buddy has an hk mk 23 he just got an Osprey (pretty sure) for it. I recall him saying he still wears ears. It's causing stoppages as well.

I believe one the forums I checked was "silencertalk". I checked other places, too. It was repeated that suppressed centerfire pistols aren't as quiet as people expect and many users reported they still wear ear pro. Reliability issues were also common.

I'd hate to spend the time and money to be disappointed. Most of the money isn't recoverable. Might as well stock the ammo another row deep. (I stock and shoot)

Right now I think it makes more sense to suppress a rifle. But then it needs a short barrel to avoid being a musket and i hate neutering 5.56 with a short barrel. Lately I only shoot a rifle to test it/ammo/zero it for the very occasional 2 gun match.

Most Mac suppressors suck, especially if it's an older Mac suppressor. Suppressors can cause reliability problems if you don't know what you are doing, but I can't think of a single suppressor related malfunction I've experienced and I'm not using anything nearly as big deal as Mk 23. My USPs suppress just fine without any hiccups.

I'm not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. I'm just trying to offer you some real world experience. It seems you have gone from one misconception to another based upon information that doesn't match what a lot of people here are telling you.

People on other forums love to talk dbs and things like that. Problem is Standing at the range with a sound meter and filming it on youtube is meaningless. I can get a 20 db variation from the same firearm / suppressor setup and using the same sound meter depending upon where I place it.

Gemtech was one of the few who took the time to get accurate db levels of their products, then everyone else did less than accurate readings and offered products that were 8-12 dbs lower than Gemtech and that is why Gemtech doesn't publish db ratings anymore.

Bottom line is popping a balloon is usually louder than most centerfire pistos suppressed. Not sure if I qualify popping a balloon as "not hearing safe." I tried to give you real world equivalents and what to expect. Again, if your goal was to shoot on your property without your neighbors noticing, that won't work...but that doesn't mean it isn't hearing safe.

I fully understand if you decide a suppressor doesn't meet your "wants and needs" criteria, I'm just trying to give you information.

[MegademiC]

Edit, people nay-say crap all the time.
Silencers aren't popular because they don't work.

[joshua_capitolarmory]

I've fired a Mac machine gun that was suppressed (.45) and been around many suppressed centerfire rifles (competition). None were hearing safe. Our suppressed work rifles aren't either. My buddy has an hk mk 23 he just got an Osprey (pretty sure) for it. I recall him saying he still wears ears. It's causing stoppages as well.

I believe one the forums I checked was "silencertalk". I checked other places, too. It was repeated that suppressed centerfire pistols aren't as quiet as people expect and many users reported they still wear ear pro. Reliability issues were also common.

I'd hate to spend the time and money to be disappointed. Most of the money isn't recoverable. Might as well stock the ammo another row deep. (I stock and shoot)

Right now I think it makes more sense to suppress a rifle. But then it needs a short barrel to avoid being a musket and i hate neutering 5.56 with a short barrel. Lately I only shoot a rifle to test it/ammo/zero it for the very occasional 2 gun match.

I'm not sure I would really use a Mac to judge suppressors in general... I enjoy shooting them but they aren't the best hosts and some of the old cans are not good at all. As far as "hearing safe" I have a very, very hard time believing you haven't been around a firearm with a suppressor that was below the OSHA 140 dB that people refer to as "hearing safe." Any loud sound, even a suppressed 22LR bolt gun is going to cause some hearing damage... as will standing next to a running truck or dropping a piece of wood in the garage. The difference is how much damage and how fast it causes... the majority of my hearing damage was from riding motorcycles and not really firearms. Certainly "louder than I'm comfortable with" could be correct, I won't question that for a second. But "hearing safe" (as screwed up as it is) generally refers to that 140 OSHA impulse number.

It goes into what you want them to do... hunting can be done without ear pro, it won't immediately destroy your hearing if you have to fire without ears indoors, you can shoot without bothering people around. It's not exactly for the purpose of "be as quiet as a pin dropping" but rather mitigation, as the dB scale is logarithmic they make MUCH more difference than you may expect.

As far as those of us who shoot with ears even suppressed, it's like doubling up on ear pro and only using one set. It's about retaining as much of our hearing as we can (usually due to a lot of us being high volume shooters.)

In regards to reliability issues, that's not really the case. It is, and it isn't. If you do anything to a working firearm, you could potentially have some sort of issues if you don't know what's going on. You're changing the function slightly of a machine... the same way you could cause issues with doing car repair if you had no clue on it. One could argue changing a trigger in a gun causes reliability issues... well it shouldn't, but if you don't understand the mechanics of everything you could run into issues by inadvertently doing something incorrectly. It's really no different than reloading 10,000 rounds and undercharging the ammo to the point it won't cycle a specific pistol. Then saying "reloading makes pistols unreliable." The real root is the reloader didn't understand how that round would behave in his pistol, and he loaded a whole lot before doing any real load development.

At the end of the day, if the benefits of a can aren't worth it to you... then by all means don't waste your money on it. Get more ammo, another gun, or something that will make you happy. It's your money, spend it on what YOU want to, not what people think is the coolist thing. That being said, to really understand suppressors you have to spend time with them. That's not really anything you can get from YouTube or internet forums. Too many opinions and they don't accurately reflect the experience. As both a hunter and shooter of many SBRs, silencers are the best thing since sliced bread. I can actually shoot a 5.56 SBR without tremendous concussion and my teeth rattling out. I can hunt and hear nature, or talk with friends while hunting in quiet voices. If you're an IDPA guy and only shoot pistols for IDPA... a silencer on that gun may not really do much at all for you.

[SeriousStudent]

Joshua - thank you for that post.

Guys, there is a reason I have bought 11 cans from Capitol Armory. Good advice and good service tops the list.