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Thread: 17 MOST IMPORTANT GUNFIGHT STATS: BACKED BY DATA AND REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by T2C View Post
    Whether you are armed with a revolver, semi-automatic, .380 ACP or .44 Magnum, integrating moving into your defensive plan is of paramount importance. Keep moving, keep breathing and keep thinking.
    After you Master the basics. If you can't shoot standing still, you shouldn't expect to hit the broad side of the barn moving. I can routinely snap shoot steel moving with my EDC gun but can also put a cylinder full of any ammo you give me on a silver dollar at seven yards standing. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.

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    GySgt Thomas Sullivan
    SSgt David Wyatt
    Sgt Carson Holmquist
    LS2(SW) Randall Smith
    LCPL Squire "Skip" Wells

    "These men are NOT victims."
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    Always Chattanooga Strong.

  2. #22
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    There's a lot of good discussion on this thread, but there's also a lot of myths going on here. I've actually covered several of those in this article. http://www.tierthreetactical.com/thr...-can-kill-you/

    Killing power is a myth. It doesn't matter what handgun round you pick because the actual mechanism of injury is crushing trauma from the bullet on the local tissue. In effect you are making a slightly bigger hole, and dumping a bit more injury. This is akin to me asking whether you'd like to get hit from mike tyson, or an MMA heavy weight. They both will put you down with no practical difference.

    A round like 5.56 is so much better because of the ballistic pressure wave behind the bullet. As it enters human tissue it expands the tissue destroying it in a process called cavitation. It also causing mechanical crushing along the bullets path as a handgun round does. But even with this superior process there are only 3 ways to kill a person with a bullet. You disrupt their blood circulation causing exsanguination. This takes many minutes to occur and probably can happen no fewer than 3 minutes. The other is you hit the central nervous system from the brain up causing nearly instant death. Last is an injury to a bodily subsystem such, as liver, or intestines that eventually results in death over sever days, or longer.

    I'd recommend reading the article because these myths persist and they cause a lot of terrible practices in the self defense community. As a practical matter have 6 rounds of 44 mag is going to do nothing if you miss your target three times because of recoil and put two in the bad guy. A 9mm with proper ammo is much easier to control and you can carrier much more ammo. There's a reason why the FBI is switching back to 9mm and it's go nothing to do with bro science.
    Crossfit Level 1 Coach, Former Marine Officer, Current Police Officer

    Owner of Tier Three Tactical

  3. #23
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    Newton's laws are hardly myths. Bigger, heavier bullets kill better as they have more mass. Larger diameter bullets let more blood out. This isn't really difficult.

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    GySgt Thomas Sullivan
    SSgt David Wyatt
    Sgt Carson Holmquist
    LS2(SW) Randall Smith
    LCPL Squire "Skip" Wells

    "These men are NOT victims."
    -CO, M/3/14, August 2015

    Always Chattanooga Strong.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    After you Master the basics. Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    Mastering the basics and maintaining proficiency is a given.

    Moving is more tactically sound than presenting yourself as a stationary target.
    Last edited by T2C; 03-05-17 at 07:15.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    Newton's laws are hardly myths. Bigger, heavier bullets kill better as they have more mass. Larger diameter bullets let more blood out. This isn't really difficult.

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    Practically speaking this does not matter. If you bleed 3 more ml of blood a minute does that really matter in a gun fight? Another way to put it is getting stabbed with a 3 inch knife or a 3.1 inch knife. For all intents and purposes it's the same thing. Read the article I posted and let me know if that changes anything regarding those ballistic myths.
    Crossfit Level 1 Coach, Former Marine Officer, Current Police Officer

    Owner of Tier Three Tactical

  6. #26
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    Read it. I still reject the Tupperware myth. A Model 19, stoked with any 357 load, is still light years ahead of any 9mm ever made for ease of building skill, reliability, and fight stopping power.

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    GySgt Thomas Sullivan
    SSgt David Wyatt
    Sgt Carson Holmquist
    LS2(SW) Randall Smith
    LCPL Squire "Skip" Wells

    "These men are NOT victims."
    -CO, M/3/14, August 2015

    Always Chattanooga Strong.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    The problem is that Tupperware replaced skill.
    No, it didn't actually. I could elaborate, but it would be a waste of bandwidth.


    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    On Revolvers:

    They will reliably work with any ammunition. I have NEVER owned a selfloader I considered reliable enough for shooting for keeps. They ALL short-shuck, stovepipe, or hang shells up on the chamber. The revolver is easier to shoot well. No safety, magazines or "tap and rack." In 35 years of revolver shooting, I have had ONE cartridge revolver hang up. That was rectified by using a different powder.
    And in the past three years I've seen of the 12 revolvers on the range that I shoot at that were being used for HD purposes that the owners were training, Tauri, Ruger, and S&W, 3 lock up so tight that they needed a hammer and a trip back to the manufacturer to correct, and one that came out of timing.

    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    As to the Masters, Keith, Askins Jr, and Jordan all lived into the plastic era. And all three were diehard revolver men. Iirc, Askins took the revolver side in a number of the "revolver vs. automatic" articles that ran regularly in the middle 80s. Col. Cooper preferred the Government Model and coined the term "crunchentinker" for the high capacity selfloader. He also famously quipped, "If you need more than seven shots, you're headed for a war, not a gunfight."
    No idea what the point of this is other than some hero worship. Okay, 80's? I don't care about the 80's. I don't even care about the 90's. This is 2017. Again technology has advanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    Low light conditions, point shooting. I cleaned the low light qual course the very first time I ever shot an M9 without the flashlight. Missed Expert by one point on the regular course, too.
    Ever hear of identifying your target before shooting them?

    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    The 357 does ballistic things that are battering 40 cal Tupperware to pieces.
    Considering you lack understanding of ballistics and modern technology, I'm not wasting bandwidth.

    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    As to multiple targets, at least in NYC they have multiple policemen shooting one target so that doesn't wash.

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    Great if you have multiple officers or others with you. But, since you have already invoked being proficient at range, and training for things that are not the most common, 75 yard shots for example, you may not have multiple others with you to engage a threat. It might just be you, and them, and a lot of violence about to be opened up. You want 6 rounds against 4 attackers or do you want 16? Because the odds are stacked against you regardless.
    "I don't collect guns anymore, I stockpile weapons for ****ing war." Chuck P.

    "Some days you eat the bacon, and other days the bacon eats you." SeriousStudent

    "Don't complain when after killing scores of women and children in a mall, a group of well armed men who train to shoot people like you in the face show up to say hello." WillBrink

  8. #28
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    Off the top, I've always stated for as long as I can remember that getting three things on your side will enhance winning the encounter-time, distance and cover. You can of course break down those to see how it will give you the advantage and the attacker, the opposite. Three things to take away from the attacker are ability, opportunity and desire. You have the most control over the opportunity and desire and once bullets fly and hit-the ability. The one thing that seems to have diminished in recent times is close quarters shooting-I'm not talking 5-7 yards either. The problem is some don't want to teach "unsighted" shooting out of fear of liability.
    The movement stats really drive home some points, I like it.

    oh-unless your are guys like Miculek-I call you out on these sub one second or even 1 sec(fat second) draws from concealment
    GET IN YOUR BUBBLE!

  9. #29
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    https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...s-fastest-gun/

    Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk
    GySgt Thomas Sullivan
    SSgt David Wyatt
    Sgt Carson Holmquist
    LS2(SW) Randall Smith
    LCPL Squire "Skip" Wells

    "These men are NOT victims."
    -CO, M/3/14, August 2015

    Always Chattanooga Strong.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by plain old dave View Post
    https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2...s-fastest-gun/

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    Based on your replies, I'm not calling out people like that--just so you know. It's the ones here in wonder dome that claim to have sub second draws from concealment and hit the head box(card size) of an IPSC.

    You really need to do some research with the whole caliber issue and get up to date a wee bit more.
    GET IN YOUR BUBBLE!

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