Trumpcare Unveiled

[TommyG]

I came across this while catching up on the latest last night. The first couple of entries offer an interesting discussion of the whole mess. I don't know enough about the subject to know if he is on the right track or not but it seems pretty down to earth:

"That's the funny thing about cost-shifting -- it can never solve a cost problem. It just moves the problem somewhere else. Where it moved it was on the back of productivity and tax receipts, both of which have been horrifyingly bad since the 2008 crash. Last fiscal year tax receipts rose by less than 1% despite all the new taxes in the PPACA and higher rates generally while productivity improvements have all but disappeared.

The AHCA cannot resolve this problem because it intentionally refuses to address the driver of the problem in the first instance. Returning to "High Risk Pools" is idiotic because those very pools were on the verge of collapse prior to the PPACA and were a big part of why Obamacare was written and passed! The insurance and medical lobbies wrote the PPACA to get rid of those problems and pools, or so they thought.

They tried denying math but failed because the laws of mathematics are not suggestions. You can't get rid of a cost by making someone else pay it; you simply move it and eventually it comes back and bites you."

Head Shot: "The cost of insuring against a bad event is directly and mathematically determinable by the cost and probability of said event. Second, due to the above mathematical fact if you wish to decrease the amount "insurance" costs there is only one way to do it: You must decrease the cost of the event, the probability of the event or both."


Several entries discussing it here: https://market-ticker.org/

[26 Inf]

"The cost of insuring against a bad event is directly and mathematically determinable by the cost and probability of said event. Second, due to the above mathematical fact if you wish to decrease the amount "insurance" costs there is only one way to do it: You must decrease the cost of the event, the probability of the event or both."

I thought it was pretty clear from the git go that ACA sought to decrease the probability of events by increasing the pool of people being insured. Predictably, many people rebelled at being told they 'had' to buy insurance.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I thought it was pretty clear from the git go that ACA sought to decrease the probability of events by increasing the pool of people being insured. Predictably, many people rebelled at being told they 'had' to buy insurance.

More, reducing the percentage of people that have bad events when insured. The number of events would go up, but the number of people was supposed to go up faster. I like the idea of high risk pools- instead they raised the cost of everyone and then subsided a lot of people. That seems like a paper work nightmare and lots of room for up costing to make sure to cover higher costs.

[JoshNC]

Thank the good Lord this bill died. It would have further destroyed healthcare and the republicans would have no one to blame. Premiums would continue to climb and less people would be insured. The notion that the ability to buy a policy across state lines would magically cause lower prices due to competition is absurd. Insurance companies in all states would universally do what insurance companies do - raise rates. Obamacare needs to go. But the Rs need to get their collective sh$t together, hire some smart health policy peeps and put together a better plan.

[WS6]

-Repeal/Reform EMTALA.
-Treat people who can pay. Don't treat those who can't. (Beyond the ER, and MEDICALLY NECESSARY treatment to avoid death or loss of limb in the immediate sense).
-Stop treating non-compliance for free.
-Allow healthcare insurance plan shopping anywhere in the US.

I currently pay $277/mo. I am 31, M, Never smoker, No disorders or diseases (not even glasses). I have a nearly $4K deductible.
I COULD pay $49.99/mo, and have a $500 deductible. But that plan "doesn't qualify" with Obamacare.

The goal with all of this healthcare BS is to give as much shit away as possible to people who won't pay for it. ****. That. Aside from life/limb-saving intervention, it's a consumable. Like food. Etc.

So currently, we are all billed for the 20 aspirin that are NOT billed because charity...and we are also billed for the massive insurance costs incurred by insuring noone gets rich of suing, and we must include the profit loss from those who DO successfully sue, and we must pay for...all that shit, that makes your $0.20 ASA 325mg pill cost you $20.

Want to get rid of that? Manage liability. Remove charity cases, stop forcing insurance companies to take shitty clients with preventable diseases at "fit and healthy" rates. Etc. etc. etc.

America is gutless and won't do it though, so nothing is going to fix it. It's all just different ways of drawing the same conclusion, these different "reforms".

[WS6]

Thank the good Lord this bill died. It would have further destroyed healthcare and the republicans would have no one to blame. Premiums would continue to climb and less people would be insured. The notion that the ability to buy a policy across state lines would magically cause lower prices due to competition is absurd. Insurance companies in all states would universally do what insurance companies do - raise rates. Obamacare needs to go. But the Rs need to get their collective sh$t together, hire some smart health policy peeps and put together a better plan.

It needs to go, but it needs to go piece-meal. It will never happen though, successfully, because here is what it boils down to: healthcare that is as heavily regulated as that in America is ****ing EXPENSIVE. Only a certain segment of the population will be motivated enough to provide well enough for themselves to afford it. Either DE-regulate it to the level you would find in other countries, so that it costs less and lowers barrier to entry, at the expense of quality/safety, or charge those who DO work hard to afford it enough money to pay for ALSO those who don't/won't.

I know which way we are going, and it's the latter. There is no way to get this shit for free. Medical personnel will not work for free (personally, if I see someone working in a hospital in a patient-care setting for less than $20/hr (this is in an area where min-wage is $8.15, I think?), I think they have an extra hole in their head unless they are just using it for experience). Hospitals will not lose money (without closing). So we give away as much of it as we can, and the tab is picked up by everyman and everywoman. Socialism at its finest.

[Sensei]

Thank the good Lord this bill died. It would have further destroyed healthcare and the republicans would have no one to blame. Premiums would continue to climb and less people would be insured. The notion that the ability to buy a policy across state lines would magically cause lower prices due to competition is absurd. Insurance companies in all states would universally do what insurance companies do - raise rates. Obamacare needs to go. But the Rs need to get their collective sh$t together, hire some smart health policy peeps and put together a better plan.

What? Aren't you tired of all this winning yet?

Just this morning Trump took to Twitter to call out the House Freedom Caucus and Heritage Foundation for his current woes.

[Eurodriver]

Why have I yet to hear absolutely anything on repealing the pre-existing condition regulation?

How can insurance companies function if someone with cancer can simply sign up at $500/mo (hell, even $1000/mo) and then immediately receive treatment?

[Hmac]

Why have I yet to hear absolutely anything on repealing the pre-existing condition regulation?

How can insurance companies function if someone with cancer can simply sign up at $500/mo (hell, even $1000/mo) and then immediately receive treatment?

Yes, mandated coverage of pre-existing conditions is a no-go if any bill ever hopes to provide affordable care.

[Sensei]

Why have I yet to hear absolutely anything on repealing the pre-existing condition regulation?

How can insurance companies function if someone with cancer can simply sign up at $500/mo (hell, even $1000/mo) and then immediately receive treatment?

Man, I'm hurt. See posts 68, 78, and 90 in this thread. Also see Chris Wallace's interview of Jim Jordan on today's episode of Fox News Sunday.