After reading this thread I want to buy MEN, but I do have experience with winchester NATO and speer lawman. I didn't chrono either load but they both ran 100% in my glock 19. I have always heard that the military spec'd 9mm NATO to be a very spicy 9mm. Definitely can tell the difference between NATO and something weak like regular 115 white box. Speer law man is supposed to be loaded to the same pressures as their comparable grains in gold dot, to facilitate training costs and POI without running through pricey gold dots. I know they make +P cause I bought some 200gr +P when I had a 45.