Looking at Three Ambi Magazine Releases

[Duffy]

We don't want to be seen as a boutique company, and have never considered ourselves in that manner. But our small size and corresponding high cost (economy of scale) per unit sure can make us look like one, I just hope by the products we design and put out, and the folks and weapons for whom and which we design should make it clear what our purpose and mission is.

[titsonritz]

Why? I am hesitant about and ambi-mag release that pivots on the receiever. Finish wear I can take, but I imagine it is digging a hole in the receiver. Moreover, I was looking at these (and their bolt catch) and think that they're pricey, but might not do much more for function than a Geissele bolt catch or a Norgon (which I consider to be proven).

Anybody have the part # for the Sig ambi-mag release that will fit a standard AR?

I really don't have more to add over the three posters above me, but I will say I do have Geissele's Maritime Bolt Catch & Norgon combo as well as FCD's EMR-A & ABC/R-AA combo and I prefer the latter. I no longer have a Troy but suspect it might work better with the Maritime catch because the controls are separated more thus less of a chance mixing them up. I find the EMR-A to the closest mirror image of the standard mag release in location and tension, then there is that awesome shape of the lever that Roger came up with which is just that...awesome.

Pricey? Bought many Norgons?

Wear a hole in the receiver? You ****ing stud.

[Hulkstr8]

I really don't have more to add over the three posters above me, but I will say I do have Geissele's Maritime Bolt Catch & Norgon combo as well as FCD's EMR-A & ABC/R-AA combo and I prefer the latter. I no longer have a Troy but suspect it might work better with the Maritime catch because the controls are separated more thus less of a chance mixing them up. I find the EMR-A to the closest mirror image of the standard mag release in location and tension, then there is that awesome shape of the lever that Roger came up with which is just that...awesome.

Pricey? Bought many Norgons?

Wear a hole in the receiver? You ****ing stud.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have had a couple of Roger's products sitting in my cart and not making up my mind.

Yeah, they are pricey. Especially considering the clones of the norgon out there. Not saying they're not worth it, just pricey.

I wish I was a stud, but I'm not lol.

[Hulkstr8]

We don't want to be seen as a boutique company, and have never considered ourselves in that manner. But our small size and corresponding high cost (economy of scale) per unit sure can make us look like one, I just hope by the products we design and put out, and the folks and weapons for whom and which we design should make it clear what our purpose and mission is.

Yeah, I figure between economies of scale and patent lawyers it's tough to get products out there nowadays. There's nothing wrong with be a boutique company either, hell Tesla is a boutique company and so was AT&T and DTE Energy.

I just worry for the cost and lack of experience (never used an ambi mag release) that I am going to buy the Norgon and then wonder if I would like the EMR better or vice versa. I'll sort it out, but thanks for putting it out there.

[Duffy]

Not technical in nature....we're running a 15% off sale site wide, and with the code freeshipping it removes shipping charges as well, this is one of the few times we make codes stackable.

Re: Maritime Bolt Catch, I wrote about it a few months back so I'll copy and paste it here, sorry about the wall of text

The Maritime bolt catch was first seen in mid April of 2017, by then the EMR-A design was well completed and working, usable EMR-A prototypes were made in Feb of 2017. We thought it might be a compatibility problem between the two, and indeed there is, as disclosed on the EMR-A's product description page on our site, and earlier posts in this thread.

To make the MBC and EMR-A work together, material would need to be removed from either the top of the EMR-A paddle, or the bottom of the MBC's lower paddle. Even then this would be far from ideal, the close proximity of these two control surfaces will make both the bolt catch's lower paddle, and the EMR-A's lever difficult to distinguish from one another without a visual.

We took pains to separate the EMR-A's lever from the bolt catch's lower paddle, it's indeed one of the key elements of the design. The area directly below the bolt catch, the EMR-A's lever has the lowest profile and is free of serrations, the design redirects the user's finger to the serrated portion which is as far away from the bolt catch's lower paddle as we can manage, without making the lever too long.



Maritime bolt catch serves a different purpose, which is quite different from our own bolt catch (ABC/R). ABC/R creates a unique control surface that can be easily distinguished from an ambi mag catch's lever, while both its top and lower paddles have a great deal more surface area than a factory bolt catch, they were not designed to have a rearward bias, as left finger accessibility of the paddles (a fine motor function) wasn't a design goal, nor essential for the ABC/R's function, in any case it's not the reason for which the ABC/R was designed.

EMR-A, like all of our products, was designed for TDP spec receivers, and to work with TDP spec components, and components that don't deviate too greatly from TDP spec.

Geissele has its reasons for making the Maritime Bolt Catch paddles the way it did. With the ABC/R, we obviously differ in opinion on the extent of the paddle's over sizing. Below is a post we wrote on m4carbine.net https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ime-Bolt-Catch

The Maritime bolt catch and our ABC/R are both bolt catches, and they both have a larger upper paddle, that's where the similarity ends. As mooseman stated, we had different approaches to achieve different sets of goals, that's logical and proper.

Early on, military morons had suggested we extend the lower paddle with a rearward bias, such a thing had already been done on AXTS's proprietary bolt catch on their billet receiver. ABC/R's upper paddle is already larger and twice angled (the upper paddle has a10 degree cant at the lower 50%, and 15 degree cant at the top 50%, forming an "elbow") and wasn't the focus for this discussion.

Our view was firstly, the location of the bolt catch's lower paddle didn't present an issue for most users, and the upper paddle isn't meant to be accessed with an extended finger that can only exert limited pressure (compared to a thumb or palm) to the paddle, there's then scant needs to create a bolt catch with extended paddles with a rearward bias to enable it. Secondly ABC/R's design goal is quite different, it is to address the issue of ambi mag catches obscuring/masking the bolt catch's lower paddle, its angled and extra lateral protrusion more than adequately achieves that goal.

[titsonritz]

Yeah, they are pricey. Especially considering the clones of the norgon out there. Not saying they're not worth it, just pricey.

There weren't any Norgon clones around when I bought the couple I have, not that it would matter I typically stick with the original because more often than not they are higher quality and I'd rather give my support to the original designer over someone that took someone's idea and profited from it. I'm not going to replace and sell my Norgon but from here on out, unless I find something I like better, the EMR-A will be my go to mag release.

Oh, and another thing I like about the EMR-A is it comes with a mag release spring making one fewer part I need to buy separately.

Now if only Roger would just include a bolt catch plunger, spring and roll pin with his ABC/R-AA that would be tits. Hint, Hint

[Duffy]

If we can source them inexpensively in the US, we got the springs covered but not the plunger and pin. I suspect we'll get there one day, meanwhile, we're happy to give LE/MIL/first responders discounts worth more than the tiny parts, this includes many of you guys If you don't have the codes, please email me.

I've heard of strange issues with the Norgon clones, there are enough of them out there. I will not buy a clone either, simply because I don't appreciate it much when our designs are appropriated without license or credit. I do believe there are some quality/construction issues. When something costs 1/4 of the original, something has to give.

[26 Inf]

I just worry for the cost and lack of experience (never used an ambi mag release) that I am going to buy the Norgon and then wonder if I would like the EMR better or vice versa. I'll sort it out, but thanks for putting it out there.

Are you left-handed? As I mentioned, I am. I put ambidextrous safeties, mag releases, and charging handles on all of MY rifles (ambi safeties on everything I put together).

That being said, a lifetime of making adaptations has entrenched those methods to the point that unless I specifically tell myself - 'use the ambi' - I ignore the mag release and charging handle. I'm good on the safety, because of the number of reps.

I thought about it, and decided that I will still put them on all my rifles, it can't hurt. I am swapping/replacing my Troy's and Norgon (clone) for EMR-A's or KAC's out as I build new rifles for folks.

Depending on how sanitary I can make the modification, I am going to end up with the Mari-Time Catches on everything that I keep for myself. I learned a long time ago that you modify the least expensive part, so I'll be modifying the catches, not the releases.

All that to say - if you are comfortable and proficient with running the rifle without the ambi-releases, you may not be missing much if you forego them. Another side of the coin is that if there is ever any need for you to use a pick-up rifle, it is more likely to be a righty, rather than an ambi.

[Hulkstr8]

Are you left-handed? As I mentioned, I am. I put ambidextrous safeties, mag releases, and charging handles on all of MY rifles (ambi safeties on everything I put together).

All that to say - if you are comfortable and proficient with running the rifle without the ambi-releases, you may not be missing much if you forego them. Another side of the coin is that if there is ever any need for you to use a pick-up rifle, it is more likely to be a righty, rather than an ambi.

No, I am not a lefty. I just like the idea of having ambi controls. It's not a huge priority to get ambi mag releases, but it's been on my mind lately. On a side note, I have the Super Charging Handles and I love them -but it's also my first ambi mag release.

[blfuller]

CDNN is selling the Norgon clone as well for $19.99.