Current Browning / FN Hi-Power

[noonesshowmonkey]

You boys be careful and don't fix something that ain't broke.

I hear ya.

After replacing the 3-coil MkIII trigger spring with an 'extra power' 2-coil MkI/MkII style spring, the reset is much clearer. I used two sets of needlenose to bend both loops of the spring a touch in order to take up the slack made by removing the magazine disconnect safety. Overall, a much tighter trigger, with a faster reset, having gone from mushy and ambiguous to livable.

I swapped in a 26 lb hammer spring, and an 18.5 lb extra power recoil spring to compensate. The action of the slide is crisp, clean, and much improved. After taking measurements of the recoil spring that came with the firearm, it was beyond it's replacement schedule.

Took the FNHP out shooting today, firing around 200 rounds through it. The gun still sometimes refuses to go into battery after recoil. The round coming off of the magazine gets stuck on the bottom of the feed ramp, and the slide moves forward from full recoil about 3/4" before getting stuck. Wracking the slide solves the problem, feeding the round, but effectively renders the pistol single-shot. I haven't been able to figure out what the cause of all of this is. The same behavior was happening when I fired the gun after picking ut up, before changing anything. The gun was previously re-parkerized, which adds a few mils of material in all dimensions, and may just be tight. I have the stock magazine, plus two 15 round mec-gars, and the problem is more pronounced on the stock mag (weak springs?), but still extant on the mec-gars. Ammo has all been Blazer Brass or Aluminium, with a bit of Federal thrown in there. Maybe it is the weak target ammo? With replaced springs in the gun, I am leaning towards either needing to polish the feed ramp a bit, or that the gun is still 'tight' from the recent refinishing, and just needs some time to wear in.

I have a C&S no-bite hammer and sear ready to go, but I'll need to order a replacement hammer strut, hammer strut pin, and hammer spring. Trying to drive out the hammer strut pin, which has been staked, is proving incredibly difficult. I'll either need to jig it up just so, and maybe press it out, or just get a whole new assembly and start over with the C&S gear.

Finally, I am waiting on the QPQ treatment for when I have a fist full of spare parts in hand. I may just end up grabbing an FN/Browning ambi-safety, and a C&S safety, and QPQ them both to match the finish, then swap them in and out until I find the right mixture. Who knows.

[williejc]

Noon, I remembered that your pistol has been parkerized in the recent past. I suggest that you remove the extractor and check for crud left over from the process. Once I hired a well known(now defunct)firm to parkerize a .380 Beretta slide. The pistol functioned perfectly before the treatment but malfunctioned after receiving. Upon examination I discovered that an idiot employee did not remove the extractor before the process. Bead blast material and other junk completely incapacitated the extractor. On another occasion I had a Ruger LCP slide and barrel cerakoted. It also failed to function after receiving it back. Same problem, different idiot.

Even if your extractor had been removed before treatment, cleaning up the area is important. Of course, you can check freedom of movement. Two other tight contact points to check are barrel lug section on top of barrel and corresponding surfaces on the slide.

If an over enthusiastic person has previously polished the feed ramp and changed dimensions at the ramp's bottom edge, that could cause the problem you describe. When the slide fails to go in battery, will tapping or hitting the slide's rear cause it to go forward? If not, the problem does not appear to me to be caused by park. treatment. I would, though, cease working on the pistol until you fix the original problem. If you could shoot it with a "borrowed" barrel, you would learn more.

The only other guess that I can make is that magazine catch is worn or was improperly installed after the pistol was parked. If so, the magazine will be setting slightly low in the frame and causing the slide/battery problem. You might place tape on the top edge of the magazine "catch" cut out in the mag body. This step will slightly raise the mag in the frame with the cartridge itself being raised to an ideal height to feed. So if the tape permits reliable feeding, you then will know what caused the slide/battery problem. Try this next.

[noonesshowmonkey]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The whole pistol was stripped all the way to the frame twice and cleaned. The first time through, I found an absolutely absurd amount of crud in and around the extractor and particularly on the ejector. After having torn the pistol down twice all the way to pins & springs, and reassembled after cleaning, I am fairly certain that crud itself is not the problem.

Tapping on the rear of the slide does not return it to battery that I've experienced. I haven't really tried that method deliberately, however. Whatever work I have done on it so far has been mostly to just replace the springs. The original P35 shipped with a 26lb hammer spring, and only the recoil spring is changed (up to 18.5 lb from 17 lb). The rest of the springs were just replaced, and given the state of wear on them, they needed it. Either case, the problem existed before the spring swaps, and continues after.

This last range trip experienced far fewer failures to feed. The pistol is extracting and ejecting properly. I am quietly hoping that this is just a wear in problem, and that it'll cure itself after a few hundred rounds down range.

I'll check the magazine catch; it may be worn or improperly installed, as you've suggested. As mentioned above, the pistol was stripped down to its skivvies, cleaned and lubed. I had to use the magazine catch button as a kind of plunger to squish around a lot of oil in the mag-catch body until the spring and channel of the mag catch gave up all of the dirt and rust trapped in there. As far as I know, I installed the mag catch properly. The test with the magazine is a good idea. I haven't performed a full remedial drill (tap/wrack) on the pistol, and the tap portion would tell me if the magazine wasn't seated properly.

Either case, I think your advice is sound, and I am holding off from throwing more variables at the pistol until I can get it to cycle reliably. A side-by-side working pistol would be great, and if you have a few hundred dollars laying around that you want to invest in diagnosing this particular FNHP, I'd not turn down a mate for it. ; )

[williejc]

Numrich Gun Part has brand new HP barrels for around $169. Factory price is $475, which is more than I paid for most of the HP's that I've owned.
Numrich has great deals on parts, many of which are brand new and bought on closeouts from around the world. Supply changes daily. They ship with stupidly low rates and break neck speed. I love'em. Check out their BHP items.

[noonesshowmonkey]

Great heads up from Numrich. I see that they are still listing a 9mm barrel for the BHP for $100, but show out of stock. What a thing to miss!!! $160 is still a great deal, and beats the piss out of spending almost as much on a new barrel as I spent on the whole FN HP. I have a cart built there that'll give me a good stock of extra replacement springs and parts. Thanks for the heads up.

Well, I determined that the problem wasn't the feed ramps, or the ejector, or the extractor.

In fact, it's much simpler: the slide stop is engaging during firing, locking the slide back at full recoil.

I shoot with an extremely high tang, thumbs forward grip (suited to firing Glocks, my work gun), and I might be riding the slide stop just enough with my hands to force it up during firing? But, I think it isn't just me. I had a buddy shoot it yesterday, and he experienced a few stoppages due to the slide stop engaging.

A gunsmith at the firing range that I was shooting at stated that he had to file the edge of his BHP's slide stop at the point where it impinges into the frame and the top of the magazine well. He'd been experiencing a similar stoppage, and determined that the rounds coming up off of the magazine were pushing against the slide stop ever so slightly, willing it into the lockup position on the slide during recoil, locking the slide back.

So, any suggestions from the collective wisdom of M4Carbine.net? Get a new slide stop? File the edges of my current slide stop? Quit shooting a vintage gun like it's a modern fighting pistol?

[williejc]

First, I must quickly say that there is no reason to stop using your BHP. Vintage has nothing to with it. I've had a few instances of the same type issue with semi auto pistols over the years. Two were new in the box Colt 45 autos. Theoretically slide stops require fitting. The one in yours may be an original replacement part installed in yours without attention to detail. Some work as installed; others require more effort.

One reason that a BHP slide stop can cause problems is that its size gives it more inertia when it "jumps up" during recoil. The same principle allows staked 1911 front sights to become loose over time. I did not realize that your pistol was completely locking back, or I would have advised you to check if bullet contact as you described might be a factor. It's common in 1911s because of lack of effort or ignorance at the factory. I mentioned this possibility to another forum member in the 1911 sub forum.

Your slide and frame are not cracked; therefore, there is nothing wrong with your BHP. I hope that you look at it in this manner. People talk about beater guns. Many AR 15's are beaters.(I really must be careful with this comment, or my old ass will be flamed). Mossberg products even when new and functioning are beaters. The same applies to Chinese and Turkey made firearms. Browning High Powers are not beaters. They have soul. You will fix yours.

[noonesshowmonkey]

First, I must quickly say that there is no reason to stop using your BHP. Vintage has nothing to with it...

I was just talking about changing my grip from a super-modern, ultra-high grip to something less aggressive. I don't plan on selling this gun, or not shooting it.

One reason that a BHP slide stop can cause problems is that its size gives it more inertia when it "jumps up" during recoil.

Especially if my high grip is already bumping it up slightly. Then, any extra shimmy induced by recoil puts it the rest of the way up. I just realized that the recoil spring guide has a spring-loaded ball bearing that presses against the slide stop. Perhaps I'll need to replace that, in order to provide adequate tension on the slide stop in order to keep it down during firing?

Your slide and frame are not cracked; therefore, there is nothing wrong with your BHP. I hope that you look at it in this manner. ... They have soul. You will fix yours.

Indeed. My plan is to outfit this gun with fully ambidextrous controls, then send it off for QPQ meloniting. Hell, Nighthawk charges $3000 for the kind of end product that I'll end up with, if everything works out. The result should be an heirloom quality piece.

[gaijin]

You're likely correct on the "engaging slidestop causing premature lockback".
I've shot 1911's forever- "Hi-Thumbs".
My support hand was continually pushing up on the tab of the BHP SS and locking back slide with rounds in the gun.
Rather than change my grip, I changed/modified the part, per the 1911.

This is the result, a BHP/1911 SS:

[williejc]

About the ball bearing detent. An educated guess is that its only purpose is preventing the slide stop from backing out in response to vibration from firing.

[noonesshowmonkey]

About the ball bearing detent. An educated guess is that its only purpose is preventing the slide stop from backing out in response to vibration from firing.

I agree with that assessment.

Taking off the slide, re-inserting the slide stop lever, and then inserting a loaded magazine didn't appear at first to need any changes. After pressing the round forward into the position it would be during initial feeding, the nose of the round was too close for comfort / touching the slide stop lever. I took some 320 grip sand paper and a 600 grit stone to the end of the slide stop that impinges against the unloaded magazine, and took a few hundredths off. The extra bit of distance may be all that I need to eliminate the problem. There's plenty of meat left on the slide stop to provide for good lock back on empty. I'll see how this runs, and if necessary, rinse and repeat until I get better functionality.

Thanks for the help, gents.