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Thread: My first retro-ish build - IDF "mongrel" carbine.

  1. #1
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    My first retro-ish build - IDF "mongrel" carbine.

    After having the parts kicking around for months I finally decided to build my first retro carbine.
    To kick the whole process off, I sent a BCM 14.5 inch barrel, A2X extended flash hider, handguard cap and a non-F front sight base off to John Thomas at Retro Arms Works. You might notice I didn't mention the barrel nut in my list...Yep I forgot to send it, but John and I did a barrel nut exchange where he simply put one that he had on there and kept the one I sent separately after realizing my mistake. John had my parts for I think a total of like six hours before sending them back my way. He did a great job and I anticipate giving him more of my business in the future.

    Once I got the barrel back I did the rest of the assembly myself. It was a learning experience as I'd never assembled my own upper before, only lowers, but in the end everything seemed to come together.

    The carbine is patterned on this one and some other similar ones in IDF service that seem to be 653s rebarreled with M4 style barrels. (Although without the handguard bands it could probably pose as a GUU-5/P as well)




    I do have standard charging handles in my parts bin but the Badger Tac Latch seems like a plausible upgrade to an IDF carbine, and compared to the charging handles out now like the Raptor and the BCM Gunfighter the Badger could perhaps be considered slightly retro by comparison, and I just like extended charging handles. Stock is a Colt N stock, and the receiver extension is a Colt 4-position, which although not as retro as the original style, seems to jive with the above pic of the actual IDF gun.
    Handguards are 6-Hole, probably Rock River IIRC, although I think the carbine in the photo above has M4 handguards so I may switch to those at some point.
    Rear aperture is an A2 type, just personal preference on my part.
    Lower is a Stag A2 style, not correct I know. As soon as I can get an A1 lower I will probably swap the upper on to that and use this lower for an impending C8 style build that's in the planning stages.

    I think at some point I'd like the whole thing refinished in a more correct Colt grey as well. I'd prefer a battle worn look but honestly I'm not big on artificially wearing the finish on my guns, I prefer they to come by it honestly.

    The real test will of course be firing it, so we'll see how that goes....

  2. #2
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    I'm no retro aficionado but that's a cool looking build. Nicely done sir.

  3. #3
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    I was hoping you had built my favorite rifle, Israel took the original Car 15 with the thin 16" barrel and cut them down to first 10.5 then 11.5". The rifle was so lite it was great to carry and worked great in the urban setting I was working in.

  4. #4
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    pretty cool!

  5. #5
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    Thanks guys,. I would really have preferred to use a 14.5 pencil barrel and make it more of a straight up 653 or 723 clone but 14.5 carbine pencil barrels seem to be a rare commodity these days, particularly if you prefer a 1:7 twist.


    Quote Originally Posted by yoni View Post
    I was hoping you had built my favorite rifle, Israel took the original Car 15 with the thin 16" barrel and cut them down to first 10.5 then 11.5". The rifle was so lite it was great to carry and worked great in the urban setting I was working in.
    I'd love to build something like that, or one of those 13" barreled versions I've seen photos of, but I've still yet to get a lower SBR'd.
    Last edited by Circle_10; 03-17-17 at 06:12.

  6. #6
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    Very nice build indeed. I like it. Job well done.
    Never forget every word you spoke when you took your oath of office.

  7. #7
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    Nostalgia at its best! Good looking "classic" weapon ! Enjoy.

  8. #8
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    Initial function test today, fired four GI mags loaded with 28 rounds of XM855 apiece without issue. My upper doesn't have M4 feed ramps in it so I figured I'd go straight to a round that might theoretically cause problems, but it functioned fine and the gun didn't blow up in my face either which is also a win. Initially I'd wanted to try and get the gun zeroed but the ten inches of wet snow kinda dissuaded me from kneeling or going prone, so I opted to just rip most of the rounds off as fast as I could to test function and postponed zeroing for when this damn snow melts.
    For the purposes of carrying it around today, I put some sort of generic nylon sling I had lying around on it, and quickly determined the sling is a POS in pretty much all respects.


    My big complaints now are A. I want a correct A1 style lower for this thing. And B. I'd prefer a more suitably retro grey finish on it.

    I suppose I'll give a full parts breakdown on it.

    Upper:
    Brownells A1 stripped upper.
    Windham Weaponry A1 rear sight kits, but with A2 apertures from Numrich substituted in place of the A1 apertures.
    Colt charging handle with the now slightly antiquated Badger Tac-Latch installed.
    Fulton Teardrop forward assist.
    BCM ejection port doors and associated parts (Not the proper retro part but A1 port doors are hard to find for some reason.)
    BCM Bolt carrier group.
    BCM gas tube
    Probably RRA 6-hole CAR handguards. (I notice that the heat shield shifted below the handguards under recoil, I pushed them back into position with the tip of a pocket knife however...)
    IDF Handguard bands from Zahal
    JT Distributing or Fulton Armory because I had both loose in my parts bin for a while and am not sure which is which now) Non-F .750 FSB
    Fulton front sight post, detent, spring.
    Fulton front sling swivel/rivet
    BCM 14.5 M4 profile barrel (I would have really preferred a 14.5 pencil barrel that was ,625 at the FSB, but those seem to be in short supply. M4 profile was my backup choice.)
    BCM A2X flash hider and peel washer.

    Lower.
    Stag Stripped lower.
    Stag LPK
    Colt Receiver extension/castle nut/end plate.
    Colt "N" stock
    Colt or BCM buffer spring (again, I'm not sure which is which."
    Colt or BCM "H" buffer. (Same as above).
    M16a1 pistol grip.
    Last edited by Circle_10; 03-20-17 at 20:18.

  9. #9
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    COOL ... that is very nice. Sounds like a great build to me. If it works and functions I wouldn't change anything.

    The Brownells A1 upper I think is made by NoDak Spud. I think Brownells also used to offer the proper corresponding lowers. NoDak Spud offers the other retro receivers and finishes you may want. If you don't already have it, here is their link:

    http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm

    These folks below may have the ejection port door (but it might be pricey) and other retro parts:

    http://www.specializedarmament.com

    I'm going to use a few BCM parts also in my SBR ... IF THE STAMP EVER GETS HERE

    The rifle I built is pretty much either Fulton Armory or BCM. Got the Dremel stuff tonight that I need for the triangulars. Once done I'll post some photos here. Smoothest build I've done yet.

    Good job on your carbine.
    Never forget every word you spoke when you took your oath of office.

  10. #10
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    personally I like the black finsh of this gun. It just works for me. then again my newest toy has a bi tone between black and the actual colt gray.IMG_2676.jpg seems to be the younger sister to my build.
    also the brownells a1 upper is a Nodak Spud which is what you already have.
    Last edited by ClassIIIGunsmith; 03-21-17 at 00:57.
    "Guns are tools; people are the real weapons!"
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