Murder or Self-Defense if Officer Is Killed in Raid? (No-Knock Raid Thread)

[platoonDaddy]

Long read, but interesting on No Knock Warrants

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...rugs.html?_r=0

SOMERVILLE, Tex. — Joshua Aaron Hall had been a resident of the Burleson County Jail for about a week when he requested a meeting with Gene Hermes, the sheriff’s investigator who had locked him up for violating probation. The stocky lawman arrived in the featureless interview room on the morning of Dec. 13, 2013, placed his soda cup on the table and apologized for not getting there sooner. He asked in his gravelly drawl if they would be talking about Mr. Hall’s own case.

“No,” said Mr. Hall, a methamphetamine user and petty criminal who was facing his most serious jail time. “I want to give you something else.”

Mr. Hall reminded the investigator that they had spoken previously about the narcotics trade in the vast flatlands of central Texas. “Gene, you said you wanted to eradicate the problem,” Mr. Hall said. “And I’ve been thinking for the past couple of days that, you know, maybe I’m put in this position to help you do this.”

“All right,” the investigator said.

[Firefly]

I got some strong opinions about no knocks that I wont share beyond....

Unless someone is potentially going to die; they are not worth it. If they flush their dope; oh well. It's still gone.

A lot that can go wrong so it better be literally life or death.

[pinzgauer]

I got some strong opinions about no knocks that I wont share beyond....

Unless someone is potentially going to die; they are not worth it. If they flush their dope; oh well. It's still gone.

A lot that can go wrong so it better be literally life or death.

Multiple notable cases in GA. (Flash-bang dropped in a baby's crib, bogus non-judicial warrants leading to midnite swat raids. And the red-dog old lady shooting)

Add in the "let's roll the bearcat sniper team" aspect like the kid in Cherokee county, and it's sobering

Causes more (fatal) problems than its worth.

[DirectTo]

Add in the "let's roll the bearcat sniper team" aspect like the kid in Cherokee county, and it's sobering.

I was driving through extremely rural eastern NY/western MA Friday to airline home and passed two NYPD bearcats cruising down a road. What part of tax dollar wastage is going to that I wondered.

I believe every man and woman has the right to defend themselves, especially in their own home. You come busting in at o dark thirty doing nothing but yelling and throwing flash bangs, you shouldn't be surprised when someone starts firing back after they can't hear a thing but their ears ringing.

Criminals starting to bust in yelling "police" is an interesting point...matter of time until someone figures that out.

I think anyone would say it's one thing to kick someone's door down when there is a confirmed threat to life, but the whole idea of no knock raides because Billy and Susie like to smoke a bowl and listen to some Zeppelin has gotten to be absurd. These cases show how weak and tailored the 'evidence' is on a lot of these, and how there is basically no accountability for the cops involved. "Oops, we killed the wrong guy because he lived in apartment 5 and we wanted to level apartment 6."

[SteyrAUG]

I got some strong opinions about no knocks that I wont share beyond....

Unless someone is potentially going to die; they are not worth it. If they flush their dope; oh well. It's still gone.

A lot that can go wrong so it better be literally life or death.

That's where I'm at. Innocent people can get killed, including cops.

[moonshot]

Unless someone is potentially going to die; they are not worth it. If they flush their dope; oh well. It's still gone.

A lot that can go wrong so it better be literally life or death.

Exactly.

[lowprone]

I have to agree also.

[Dienekes]

About 25 (?) years ago the Portland OR PD did a drug raid (I believe a no-knock) and a cop was shot and killed. The shooter was promptly sent to the pen for forever and a day. A few years later a local defense attorney started digging, and lo and behold established that the narcotics unit was fabricating their affidavits for search warrants. As I recall the verdict was reversed and the shooter walked free. Needless to say it left a very bad taste in a lot of mouths.

I occasionally got roped into helping on no-knocks, and personally I thought they were stupid as hell. Maybe if some psycho is holding a bunch of school kids hostage, okay. Otherwise, screw it.

I got to know that defense attorney. Came the day when it looked like my own agency was liable to hang my ass out to dry, I contacted him just in case. It never came to that, but if it did I wanted the biggest, baddest defense on the planet.

[MegademiC]

Going off the op, what if it's the wrong house? Does whoever is responsible for going through the wrong door get charged?

As said, short of life/death, it seems like a shit sandwich

[Bulletdog]

As I've seen more and more cases of this over the years, I always question the tactic. As far back as David Koresh, I wondered why they didn't just pick him up when he was out on a run to the store.

This is America. If someone busts down a door in the middle of the night, I would expect some shooting to take place. This being the case, I think that at least the "no-knock" portion should be done away with. How does a person asleep in their home know who is smashing down their door. As long as people know the police are doing these no-knock raids, criminals can simply do the same thing and yell out "POLICE!", as they smash their way in.

I would rather see a few criminals flush their drugs and get away with it, than to risk police and innocent lives by continuing with this extremely dangerous policy. The vast majority of criminals are going to surrender peacefully when the cops knock on the door and there is a full SWAT team behind them. And if the risk is too great, keep the perp under surveillance and pick him up when he leaves the house. If he runs, send the dog(s). Ain't nobody going to outrun a malinois.